House I'm buying is unmortgageable!!

halesowenmum

konark wrote: »

You may want to enquire whether the lining was internal or external although the term 'lining' would suggest the former.

Yes I'm hoping to find that out for sure. It's not quite clear from the document whether they did the work or were reporting on the work that they found (I think it may be the latter).

When you look at the depth of the chimney breast that sits against that wall, it's not the depth you'd expect... I guess that could be an extra layer of blockwork. I'm not sure whether it wouldn't be a good idea to use a small hammer/chisel and expose a small - if you see blocks not bricks, bingo. And that wouldn't cost £680.

So, so far, we have a result of 2:1 that the wall's been partly rebuilt and isn't single leaf any more.

I just hope the evidence I've found will be enough to satisfy Mr Virgin.

I wonder if they'll want me to do another survey - I wouldn't be surprised. I won't be happy to pay for another one when the reason for the second is that the surveyor got their assessment of the construction of the wall wrong....

halesowenmum

Paul_the_Painter wrote: »

Could be a relatively simple case of Chinese whispers. Estate agent to vendor "yeah mate, their mortgage has been declined" Vendor - "well get it back on the market"
Some days later the true picture emerges and the Vendor realised that they have the potential problem and not you.

In my experience incompetence and bad/slow communications, are much more likely than obstinacy or devious practice

Yes. It's no doubt been a shock for the vendors, knee jerk reaction was - put it back on the market. A few days go by, reality sets in that the problem is theirs to solve. I can understand the initial reticance to accept that as they are going to have to dig into their pockets fairly deep. I'm glad there seems to have been a change.

Still, they haven't got the quotes for all the work yet!!

halesowenmum

At what point (when I'm pursuing the purchase, working hard (SO hard) to make that happen and through no fault of my own, have had the mortgage offer declined) would it be appropriate for me to ask the vendors to take the house OFF the market?

I just looked and its back on Rightmove and my heart nearly stopped seeing it on there.

What does everyone think?

chappers

halesowenmum wrote: »

When you look at the depth of the chimney breast that sits against that wall, it's not the depth you'd expect... I guess that could be an extra layer of blockwork. I'm not sure whether it wouldn't be a good idea to use a small hammer/chisel and expose a small - if you see blocks not bricks, bingo. And that wouldn't cost £680.

What you suggest would indicate two things

a)that yes a second leaf has been built hence the lack of depth to the chimney breast.

b) that this could well have been part of a single skin party wall of a party wall. a common situation in terraces of that age was that the party wall with the chimneys for both houses would have been single brick as the chimney breasts provided the structural support for the wall and any party walls without chimney breasts would have been 9" solid construction. The end gable of an end terrace would almost always be 9" solid construction regardless.
Do the terraced houses in the street have alternating chimneys ie the chimneys for two houses are back to back then the next party wall has no chimneys and so on.

Your suggestion of chipping off the plaster and some of the render could answer your question straight away if you find "modern" blockwork behind one or the other.

Whether your lender would accept that as sufficient without a proper report is another matter though.

halesowenmum

Well, I've reached the stage where the vendors of this here house that I'm trying to buy have actually gone out for quotes for them to put right the damp (and they should also have asked for quotes for the 'rebuilding of a wall in cavity construction to meet current building regulations' too).

IF they were of a mind that they were happy to deal with the damp but it was bugging them to have to rebuild a wall, they might opt to just do the former and keep the house on the market in the hopes that another purchaser would come along with a lender who didn't care about single leaf construction. In those circumstances I MIGHT look at footing the cost of the wall rebuild part of things. Now this is the wall between this house and next door, not the gable end that they want rebuilding. So question number one is, can anyone give me a ballpark figure of what the likely cost would be to create an inner lining of blockwork to create the appropriate cavity wall? It's over two storeys and the maximum depth of the house is 9.87m.

My second question is a cellar construction question. I note in cellars of a lot of properties I've looked at there usually seems to be a construction of bricks about 2.5 ft deep and about 2 ft high going round three sides of the cellar. Is that structural or could you take it out? I'm wondering if it forms part of the requirements of the foundation of these houses or if not, if that great big wodge of bricks could be removed and leave loads more floor space in a room that you might be thinking of redeveloping into a bone fide bedroom?

If anyone knows the answer(s) to any extent, that would be really helpful!

I'm just waiting to hear back what the vendor thought to the quote they received from the contractor at the moment so we can see where we might be able to progress things next.

Doozergirl

Why would anyone need to build a new cavity wall between them and the house that is still next door?

Now I'm really confused.

There are huge amounts of building regulations to create a cellar room - most notably, it will need an escape window. In this region, it is simply not financially viable to create basement rooms.

halesowenmum

Doozergirl wrote: »

Why would anyone need to build a new cavity wall between them and the house that is still next door? Now I'm really confused.

So am I, I've realized. When I first skimmed over the surveyor's valuation document my mind was obviously thinking that the surveyor would have a problem with the gable end wall - couldn't conceive that the party wall would be of anywhere near as significant an interest. But it actually is the party wall between the two houses - can you believe that? That's that one that they want rebuilding in cavity wall over both storeys to meet building regs before they will approve the mortgage!

Doozergirl wrote: »

There are huge amounts of building regulations to create a cellar room - most notably, it will need an escape window. In this region, it is simply not financially viable to create basement rooms.

Got it.

Landofwood

If they've put it back on Rightmove just cut your losses and walk away. You'll find something else.

DavidFx

Why not just measure the thickness of the gable end wall?

Measure from the external corner horizontally to a close window frame

Measure internally to the same point

Subtract readings - If less than 9" then single skin

Doozergirl

halesowenmum wrote: »

So am I, I've realized. When I first skimmed over the surveyor's valuation document my mind was obviously thinking that the surveyor would have a problem with the gable end wall - couldn't conceive that the party wall would be of anywhere near as significant an interest. But it actually is the party wall between the two houses - can you believe that? That's that one that they want rebuilding in cavity wall over both storeys to meet building regs before they will approve the mortgage!

Got it.

You're at the point now where you either walk away, find another mortgage company that might accept you OR you make a formal complaint about the surveyor/mortgage company.

I don't build terraced houses but I don't think that even current building regs dictate a cavity wall between attached properties. The invention of the cavity wall was to weather-proof and therefore damp-proof houses. There is no weather between houses.

There is definitely no need to put a cavity between two existing houses - it is not a defect and no existing house needs to meet current building regs if it isn't a defect. That said, if some upgrading was needed, there would be a different way - renovation regs are more flexible than new build.

I'll tell you now that aside from there being no need, the cost would be absolutely prohibitive. It isn't just the building of the wall, but making space for foundations then you'd have to rip up every ceiling and floor to roof level on that side of the building, and almost certainly re-wire and re-plumb where the existing will be disturbed, then replaster. That's insane.

Plus the party wall agreement with next door and potential damage to their walls by tying the two leaves together. Much more expensive than adding a leaf to the outside of the gable.

Utterly pointless and, as far as I am concerned, vexatious on the part of whoever is demnading this. It sounds like someone at the mortgage co or a typo as no surveyor could be that brainless.

We need to know WHY they think this is necessary. In building, you identify the problem then discuss resolution. A single leaf outside wall is a problem for damp and structure; internally is just not the same.