House I'm buying is unmortgageable!!

halesowenmum

So would anyone have a recommendation for a someone who could rapidly get in and do an investigation with the relevant equipment (boroscope?) Would they need to do it over both floors to give a proper picture that the lender would accept (assuming it came back alright of course)?

AS you say SG27, what about all these whattle and daub and other types of oldy worldy constructions - they've stood for years in their own funky way, they surely wouldn't compare favorably against current cavity construction strengths and yet people buy and sell them all the time.

I fear this is just the new world we live in where the underwriters have gone way too far to the other extreme - first they were lending ridiculous amounts to people that would take three lifetimes to pay off, now they have such a significantly cautious (possibly on occasions over cautious) criteria, that just identifying the single leaf on its own with them saying "this house is a danger, it's structurally unsound" or "look at the evidence of the bowing walls, the massive cracks" etc, they still refuse even the ones that seem to be perfectly ok and which appear to be standing the test of time without ANY evidence of anything structural going on that would set alarm bells ringing.

In the interim I've gone back to the Council and asked for information about any demolishing of a property directly next door - surely they wouldn't have let someone knock down a house and leave the poor old neighbour exposed with no remedial works to make sure that, what would have been a party wall, was strengthened and 'made good'? And surely any such works would have required building regs sign-off??

Not sure if all that party wall stuff was around in the 80s when that work was done but even if not, you'd still think a condition of the plans to knock down a house and build two garages instead, would require someone to do something to the now exposed wall next door, wouldn't you?

fairyloveheart

Sounds like there's a lot going on with this property and unless you do have some spare pots of money for repairs, I think I'd walk away.... But that's just MO!

When_the_going_gets_tough

Is it possible that the missing house was a result of bomb damage in the war? I would remain very wary and on this occasion I don't think the lenders are over reacting. However as you so rightly say the first thing is to find out what is actually going on. Really the vendors should take some responsibility here but if their response is just to sell it to someone with a less sharp eyed surveyor then carrying out your own investigations is your only way forward.

halesowenmum

When_the_going_gets_tough wrote: »

Is it possible that the missing house was a result of bomb damage in the war? Yes, who knows, possibly, but it's difficult to see if there was a house there or not - I await to see what the Council says on that one as it seems to tie in with the erection of two garages directly next door.

I would remain very wary and on this occasion I don't think the lenders are over reacting. I would agree with that if they were overtly stating that it's dangerous, potentially dangerous or that there are signs that show that the building isn't coping - and whilst I do 100% understand that a single layer of brick clearly isn't anywhere near as good as a proper cavity wall or double brick layer, without there being any signs to show structural dis-integrity (is that a word?!) for possibly over 20 years stood as it is, I remain to be convinced. And since clearly they managed to get a mortgage on it ok, as did their daughter before them, it seems to be more a case of a blanket ban on single leaf regardless of actual evidence to support a proper and valid concern.

However as you so rightly say the first thing is to find out what is actually going on. Really the vendors should take some responsibility here but if their response is just to sell it to someone with a less sharp eyed surveyor then carrying out your own investigations is your only way forward.

Yep, I agree. I'll conclude supporting evidence investigations with the lovely Council then I'll have to go this route as the only way to find a clear way forward.

halesowenmum

fairyloveheart wrote: »

Sounds like there's a lot going on with this property and unless you do have some spare pots of money for repairs, I think I'd walk away.... But that's just MO!

Well, potentially, there may be no single leaf so then that would then be a moot point. If it is single leaf but has no associated signs that would indicate a need for concern (bowing, cracks) what is the reason for refusal if it appears to be coping perfectly well with the loads it's bearing? Surely it would be showing signs by now??

This is a fairly typical 1900s brick built terraced house that's been rather unloved over the years and has got damp. I can tell you, I've seen WAY worse cases of damp than this house. If it's gable end wall is so unsuitable, I honestly would expect to see black mould on all the walls inside that are the inside of the gable end - but there isn't, so how bad can it be - surely it would be wringing wet if it were so bad?

In these types of houses insulation (regardless of 'sub-standard' gable end walls) is always pants until you remediate it and bring it up to a modern standard. They're often prone to condensation and therefore damp all of which is completely rectifiable (well, as far as I know and I've worked in estates and in social housing where the company I worked for had a lot of these sorts of properties). This is the main problem with them, the insulation/lack of ventilation and ingress of water if the house hasn't had it's brickwork and gutters maintained, leading to internal damp. More so if they have a cellar.

My intention was to attend to the basic issues identified in the 2013 survey such as repointing, make sure chimneys and pots are sound, attending to any roof edging mortar that needs redoing, and then look at internal ventilation to chimney breasts (currently lacking vents), ditto to the roof space, then any further work to make sure there's as much insulation as possible and surely if the gable end was re-rendered to the appropriate standard it would become impervious to penetrating damp from rain etc?

Until someone comes straight out and says this house is dangerous and it could fall down I'm still not convinced, but, I can also see why you'd say "walk away"! I can't quite yet though .


Thank you to everyone by the way, the support, ideas and help has been absolutely fantastic. You're the best!!!

Vectis

I find it difficult to believe that this is the only house in the area that's suitable for you.

With so many potential problems, walk away, find a different property, it's not worth the bother or stress.

halesowenmum

Ok. I have an update and am closer I think to confirming that the gable end wall is not single leaf, just like the surveyor concluded when he carried out the homebuyer's survey in 2013. He said the wall appeared rebuilt and likely of cavity construction.

Here's what I've found today.

The Council have some absence of documentation so I pushed the agent to ask the vendors to see what documentation they had from when they bought the house.

As I was aware the house was underpinned and the vendors have found a detailed document around all of that, which says:

“The dwelling is end of terrace although larger than the adjoining dwelling and obviously built separately [what surveyor no. 2 said]. "It may also have had a dwelling to its left, now demolished.” [Correct, supported by the relevant documentation on the Council’s planning portal an industrial unit was demolished at some point].

“The dwelling was clearly extensively modernised seven to eight years ago [this document is from 1995], involving re-roofing, blockwork lining to the left gable, rebuilding part of the apex to the right gable, and general modernisation and alterations”.

So, I've emailed that to the people that did the work (because they didn't have a copy of that report in their files any more), and asked themif they can confirm that the gable end wall is not single leaf now.

Crossy fingers they can confirm that it no longer falls into the category of single leaf. The documents have Building Regulations plastered all over them, so I'm assuming if it met the conditions for building regs approval at the time the work was done, then that would be good for now, right?

Secondly, the vendors are getting a firm in to quote for the inspections, reports and works to the property that are needed around the damp walls, timber and joists.

So that's a fair old change in attitude and comprehension of the current situationand hopefully a glimmer of hope as regards the gable end wall actually being ok. Hopefully.

Doozergirl

Well done A veritable Columbo!

Paul_the_Painter

Could be a relatively simple case of Chinese whispers. Estate agent to vendor "yeah mate, their mortgage has been declined" Vendor - "well get it back on the market"
Some days later the true picture emerges and the Vendor realised that they have the potential problem and not you.

In my experience incompetence and bad/slow communications, are much more likely than obstinacy or devious practice

konark

You may want to enquire whether the lining was internal or external although the term 'lining' would suggest the former.