Are hydrogen fuel cell cars like Toyota Mirai the future?

daltonss

Anyone here driven the Toyota Mirai? I'm shocked at it's priced at £66,000. Can't complain on its power, 153 BHP and 247 ft.lb torque definitely isn't a slouch.

What sort of maintenance does it require? Do the fuel cells compromise handling like heavy batteries?

BigBopper

Who knows, someone said it was garlic bread.

stator

They are the future, but possibly not in my life-time.

Needs some serious investment but could completely replace the internal combustion engine.

captainawsome

Hydrogen is nothing new. The tech is there and hydrogen cars have been made and tested extensively (see BMW hydrogen 7 series). But if I remember rightly there are only 3 places in the country you can fill them up which kind of makes the whole thing a non starter (for now). Electric is the future

Cornucopia

There's a huge amount of misunderstanding (and a certain amount of mischief-making) around Hydrogen-fueled vehicles.

Commentators blithely say things like "hydrogen is the most plentiful element on Earth", which in the context of current vehicle & extraction technology is completely irrelevant. The issue is the vast amount of energy currently required to extract Hydrogen to make it available for combustion or the similar process of being processed in a fuel cell.

Some serious thought, research, planning and cooperation needs to go into fueling vehicles on anything other than petrol, diesel and LPG. Even electric vehicles, which have been around for a while, generally have serious range limitations.

Why do alternative fuel cars always have to be so ugly?

rich13348

Hydrogen fuel cells are very enviromentally friendly as they only produce water vapour. The problem however is getting hydrogenbto burn to turn it into water. To get hydrogen needs chemical reactions as the majority of it is locked to other elements. These processes ultimately will inevitably produce some carbon dioxide which is the compound we are trying to reduce. The question is does it produce less than burning fossil fuel in our cars.

My thought is no, not right now but as we get more renawables on board and are less reliant on fossil fuels hydrogen cars could start to creep in but that is 50-75 years time maybe.

gzoom

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are far too complex to ever become mass market. Toyota has spent the last TWO DECDAES trying to build one, and even now the Mirai is hand built at a loss.

The biggest 'miss-selling' on hydrogen fuel cell cars is the concept that some how petrol stations can be quickly turned to hydrogen fuel stations....They cannot.

The cost of a hydrogen fuel station at the moment is just under £1 million EACH :eek:, and that's without taking into account on-going support cost of hydrogen storage etc. Remember hydrogen is stored at 700PSI, so it far more complicated to handle than liquid petroleum.

http://www.ukhfca.co.uk/2015/04/02/uk-hfca-welcomes-governments-investment-of-6-6m-in-7-new-hydrogen-refuelling-projects/

The future of motoring is EVs, but battery powered.

A Tesla Model S at £66k has an realistic range of 270 mile, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. And unlike the Mirai can seat 3 adults in the back, two kid seats in the boot, and has space in the front of the car for luggage.



In comparison the Mirai can only seat 2 in the back and has a small boot, despite been almost the same size and weight as the Model S. The reason is because the Mirai has to accommodate the complex fuel cell drivetrain, whilst the Model S only has batteries built into floor of the car.

Here are what the cars look like without the body...You can guess which one is which





Add in the fact battery costs have fallen from $1000/kWh to $300/kWh in the last 8 years, and predicted to fall by another 30-40% over the next few years. A £60K Tesla will/should cost less than £40k in a few years.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/04/13/3646004/electric-car-batteries-price/

Charging infrastructure need to improve. But EV Rapid chargers are much cheaper and easier to install than hydrogen or even petrol station pumps.

I've had my Nissan Leaf for 7 months now. I've done 4000 miles. I do my charging at home/when shopping/and motorway service stations, and it's cost me less than £40 - I pay 12p per kWh.



Hydrogen fuel cell cars will always be the cars of the future, but battery EVs are here already and I love mine. When the lease deal on my Leaf expires in 2017 I'm likely to replace it with one of these....But with a starting price of £70k+, and a 30,000 back-orders/waiting list, I'll probably end up a used Model S instead.

Either way it's a nice problem to have. One thing I'm 100% sure about EVs are the future and it's a future that's coming much quicker than many people think

daltonss

Gzoom what car is the red one you posted? Looks like a Porsche Cayman? Similarly priced to a Mirai.

The biggest misconception of hydrogen is how readily available it is. It needs to be unlocked from compounds. Right now the most easiest and viable way is through the cracking of crude oil; hardly green now is it? It requires energy to remove those hydrogen atoms - another way through electrodes which is far more greener.

The Mirai is too expensive and not enough fuel stations . Only celebs will buy it to show how green and eco friendly they are. Also the Mirai uses a rear simple torsion beam similar to that of M cars and the Cayman

LandyAndy

daltonss wrote: »

Gzoom what car is the red one you posted? Looks like a Porsche Cayman? Similarly priced to a Mirai.

It's a Tesla Model S isn't it?

Horizon81

Yawny yawny yawn.

Why do people keep feeding the troll?

Mankysteve

It's gonna be electric as soon as someone cracks the battery tech. It will leave all other powered be vehicles in the dust.

The tels a super battery plant should make a pretty good dint in current lithium batter pack prices too boot.