Help! help! Summons from tfl

e_python

What was the outcome Romi?

scared05

hi there,

i got a similar situation, i was caught on the underground by using my friend's photocard, Oyster (student discount).

the inspector took my details and said they will write to me for further action. but they said it is very likely that i will have to go to court.

i want to know whether i will get a criminal record as as result and will this be a recordable offence? will this affect my future immigration status?

as i am a overseas national here, i am so worried that i will not be able to apply for any Visa extensions, etc...

can anyone help? really confused and scared of what to do now...

thanks,

Conor_3

Yes it is a criminal offence. You could technically be charged with fraud which could quite possibly have an effect on your immigration. If it goes to court, you'll get a criminal record and be on the police national computer.

Banana23

1. Ok, found a forum where a person was in the same position as you and a legal expert has adviced both people what to do. The case that you need to look at is the one close to the bottom. Please click here to read it.
What they are basically advising is that you have to proof that you have always been of very good character, always swiped your own card etc, wear smart clothes as it has already been suggested by other people here. If possible post your question in that forum.

2. Go to your Citizens advice bureau and ask for their help!

3. Please do not get to worked up and get professional legal help. I doubt that an offence like that (if you are found guilty) will affect your immigration status. I don't think I've ever heard of a case where somebody was refused entry to this country cause they basically forgot to buy a tube ticket.:cool: Immigration would probably refuse entry if you had a serious criminal record. If you should get a criminal record because of it, you have to always explain on your application forms why you have got it! It then becomes a trust issue I suppose.

4. Chill, relax, don't get stressed, get expert legal advice and most of all: Good luck!!

scared05

Many thanks for your advice.

I will wait and see when i received the letter from TFL. I noticed from previous posts that I have to write back with my comments and explanation.

I am very scared and confused on what to say as I have never done anything bad or illegal in the past....I was using my friend's photocard because I never bought a season ticket before on the tube and I always used my own oyster prepay card to travel on the buses between home and work. Its just because my company has recently moved to a far destination and I had to travel on the tube, I was confused about the season ticket and my friend helped me to buy the ticket on his photocard and let me used it.
I only realised the price difference when I checked online after the incident (it is a travel card for zones 1 to 7). It was really not my intention to avoid paying the full fare, I was just using the photocard as a convenience and already intented to return to my friend on the day of incident because I already found a place to move to close to my company so that I no longer needed a season ticket.

I have worked so hard and have already built my life in the UK and I really dont want this silly mistake to destroy my future, and I dont know if i should mention this on my application form for my Visa extension which will happen in few months. I hope if there is a way that I can talk to TFL and settle this outside court so I dont end up with a record. I will pay the penalty if required and I certainly will not do such thing again in the future....will this be possible?

I am absolutely kicking myself now and wish i can go back in time.....
any further suggestions? thanks.

Banana23

scared05 wrote: »

Many thanks for your advice.

I will wait and see when i received the letter from TFL. I noticed from previous posts that I have to write back with my comments and explanation.

I am very scared and confused on what to say as I have never done anything bad or illegal in the past....I was using my friend's photocard because I never bought a season ticket before on the tube and I always used my own oyster prepay card to travel on the buses between home and work. Its just because my company has recently moved to a far destination and I had to travel on the tube, I was confused about the season ticket and my friend helped me to buy the ticket on his photocard and let me used it.
I only realised the price difference when I checked online after the incident (it is a travel card for zones 1 to 7). It was really not my intention to avoid paying the full fare, I was just using the photocard as a convenience and already intented to return to my friend on the day of incident because I already found a place to move to close to my company so that I no longer needed a season ticket.

I have worked so hard and have already built my life in the UK and I really dont want this silly mistake to destroy my future, and I dont know if i should mention this on my application form for my Visa extension which will happen in few months. I hope if there is a way that I can talk to TFL and settle this outside court so I dont end up with a record. I will pay the penalty if required and I certainly will not do such thing again in the future....will this be possible?

I am absolutely kicking myself now and wish i can go back in time.....
any further suggestions? thanks.

I cannot stress enough that you need to seek legal advice. I don't wanna sound patronising but most of us forum users are not professionals. Saying that, I saw a discussion on the consumeractiongroup's forums. There was a person in a similar situation. Apparently the offence is a non-recordable criminal offence and doesn't have to be declared on Visas but this is just what I've read. Please click to read the thread:
You need to prove to the magistrate that you've always been of a very good character (be extremely polite)!
I know how you feel about turning back time petal, but you need to concentrate on getting it resolved rather than thinking about what you could ave done. Good luck!

Banana23

Ok, it's a non-recordable offence:

Excerpt from NCADC.org.uk: (complete article)

"A non-recordable offence is an offence which:

- Is not punishable by imprisonment (Note it does not matter whether the person concerned was sent to prison. The offence is only 'non-recordable' if prison is not even a possible punishment for anyone convicted of that offence.)
and
- Is not listed in the Schedule to the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000 as amended by the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Amendment Regulations 2003 and National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Amendment Regulations 2005. These Regulations are on the Internet site <http://www.opsi.gov.uk&gt;http://www.opsi.gov.uk/

There are many minor offences which are non-recordable. These include many road traffic and public transport offences. What matters is the legal label for the offence for which the person was convicted, not the facts of the case or the usual sentence imposed. 'Exceeding the speed limit' is not a recordable offence, but 'dangerous driving' is.

Non-recordable offences include: parking offences; speeding; driving up a one-way street/through a red light; not wearing a seat-belt/helmet; driving without a licence/insurance; travelling on public transport without a ticket/with wrong ticket."

Non-recordable offences do not appear on your CRB check. Hope you feel better now.

scared05

many thanks.

I feel better now but will take your advice and seek help from the CAB....

e_python

Would the sitution be worst if someone had been using a child card for a very long time. And the records would suggest that (ie travelling to fixed place of work everyday; which a child will not do).

How far can they check the history on an oyster? Would they only prosceute for the time he was caught or suggest that he has been using it for a long time and possibly send him to prison????

My bother in law is in this situation and extremely worried.

ticketcollector

The following is only advice and not legal advice and should not be assumed as such.

This is TFL's Revenue enforcement and prosecutions policy (PDF 48KB)
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy-V2.pdf.pdf

Banana23, I am confused in what you have posted there. Fare Evasion can actually be punished by as much as 51 weeks in prison (Regulation of the Railways Act 1889, as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2005). Now I have only once known someone get sentenced to 1 month inside for fare evasion, and he was in front of a magistrate 16 times.

I can only state what happens on my company.
You get caught breaking a byelaw/offence
Inspector must offer you a chance to pay a penalty fare, of course if you have no money or refuse to pay the PF then the next stage happens.

CIVIL ROUTE
An inspector will take a statement of the questions asked at the time and invite you to sign it as a true relocation of the time. You also must give name and address here, it is an offence no to provide a correct name and address.

You will then be sent a confirmation letter to your home address asking you to state what happened.

You will then be invited to plead guilty by post (WPG) or plead not guilty.
Then you go to court and get fined or not fined.

CRIMINAL ROUTE
You will be cautioned under the police and criminal evidence act, An inspector will take a statement of the questions asked at the time and invite you to sign it as a true relocation of the time. You also must give name and address here, it is an offence no to provide a correct name and address.

You will then be sent a confirmation letter to your home address asking you to state what happened.

You will then be summonsed to court to explain your actions.