Britain and the EU

Masomnia

antrobus wrote: »

We are never gonna sign up to the Euro. So that ain't gonna happen.

Of course we will. What do you think 'ever closer union' means?

The last Prime Minister but one was in favour of us joining. It won't be too long until we have another one that is.

It means, presumably, giving notice as required under the Lisbon Treaty, and ceasing to be a member of the EU in due course. It would be rather silly to leave without any plan as to what to do afterwards.

Indeed, which is why there won't be one. If there was a plan for leaving people would vote for it. If the British public was offered purely a free trade agreement then they'd vote for that; which is precisely why that option is not on the table.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There's certainly a huge amount of wasted money.

I find it curious that Tories keep claiming that the UK public sector is rife with inefficiency and the potential for savings, yet cite that as a reason for reforming the EU, as if our national track record of failing to solve the national problems makes them qualified to solve it for the EU:)

CLAPTON

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Gosh you're hard work!

1. There is room for rational debate on both sides (union vs separation). This applies to both the scotland separation from the UK and to the UK separation from the eu.

2. It is generally easier to whip up mob enthusiasm for separation in either case (scotland and eu)

The 'mob' (whom I have admittedly not defined) is the uninformed and easily led masses - who, IMO, in the case of the Scotland debate and the eu debate will be more likely to lean toward separation on emotional and misplaced nationalist tendencies rather than to give due consideration to either side of rational debate.

Think of the "I wanna keep the pound cos it's British init" type mentality.

I admire the way you openly admit to being a bigot that believes the opposition is irrational, emotional and with misplaced nationalist tendencies.

No need for rational debate then?

Presumably the fact that last time people voted to stay in, proves your point.

Mistermeaner

CLAPTON wrote: »

I admire the way you openly admit to being a bigot that believes the opposition is irrational, emotional and with misplaced nationalist tendencies.

No need for rational debate then?

Presumably the fact that last time people voted to stay in, proves your point.

As above you are really hard work to communicate with.

I have not dubbed anyone 'the opposition' as I'm on the fence on this one (see post 1)

I have clearly said there is room for debate

I have said that there is a group who are irrational, emotional and prone to nationalistic tendancies and that I believe this group will lean to separating, rather than union. That does not make me a bigot.

I have not said that all who lean towards separation are part of this group.

You seem to struggle with following basic logic and jump to conclusions as to the opinions of others with no basis; I guess you see in others what you want to without actually reading what they say - with your subsequent judgements being an expression of your own narrow mindedness rather than a reflection of those you comment on.

Generali

EU polling:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9488

My feeling is that the UK will vote 'Remain' regardless of the outcome of negotiations. People generally vote for the status quo.

CLAPTON

Mistermeaner wrote: »

As above you are really hard work to communicate with.

I have not dubbed anyone 'the opposition' as I'm on the fence on this one (see post 1)

I have clearly said there is room for debate

I have said that there is a group who are irrational, emotional and prone to nationalistic tendancies and that I believe this group will lean to separating, rather than union. That does not make me a bigot.

I have not said that all who lean towards separation are part of this group.

You seem to struggle with following basic logic and jump to conclusions as to the opinions of others with no basis; I guess you see in others what you want to without actually reading what they say - with your subsequent judgements being an expression of your own narrow mindedness rather than a reflection of those you comment on.

There are groups on both sides of the argument who are irrational.

Sadly some idiots believe that irrationality is confined to one side of the debate.

Nothing is gained by making such an assumption

Masomnia

Generali wrote: »

EU polling:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9488

My feeling is that the UK will vote 'Remain' regardless of the outcome of negotiations. People generally vote for the status quo.

I agree. I think people do generally vote for the status quo, especially when things are ticking along ok as they are now.

Wrt the negotiations, nothing meaningful is being negotiated. The out campaign wants the UK parliament to be sovereign, and that isn't even on the table because Cameron knows it just isn't going to happen. Any concessions Cameron wins will be minor, and won't sway people who are fundamentally against a federal Europe; if anything the 'negotiations' are aimed at persuading just enough people in the middle to stay in.

Mistermeaner

CLAPTON wrote: »

There are groups on both sides of the argument who are irrational.

Sadly some idiots believe that irrationality is confined to one side of the debate.

Nothing is gained by making such an assumption

And sadly some !!!!heads are not able to read and/or communicate in any sort of reasonable way with others.

Did I say that irrationality is only on one side?

Sapphire

I think the EU should function as a common market only, i.e. I don't believe it should be any kind of pan-European political state (dictated to largely by Germany), and I think we should definitely have control over our own borders and laws, and not have decisions forced on us. Additionally, I strongly disagree with the way the migrant crisis has been handled by Merkel, and think that it is in fact disastrous for Europe. From observation, I feel that the EU may have been good for countries like Poland, since it provided good roads there, for example, in a short space of time, and Poland and the other Slavonic countries are perhaps safer if they are part of the EU, given the looming presence of Russia. However, Britain has contributed huge amounts of money to the EU (I don't begrudge some money going to help other European countries, but it is too much). I think Britain will benefit by voting 'no' to the EU and having a status similar to Norway's, say…

zagubov

I'm not convinced that countries could always be run better from outside their own territories.

The small EFTA countries do very well without giving away too much control. The Commonwealth and the anglosphere may be alternative mutually serviceable partners for us.

The status quo should never be taken for granted, and all international associations should be under constant permanent review.