Britain and the EU

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

As it stands, I've asked about 6 times on this thread alone for one of these things. No one has put anything forward. So I remain a no voter.

Let's not beat about the bush here. You've been wanting a referendum for years so you can vote no and come the day you'll be voting no. Nothing between now and then is going to persuade you otherwise and never was from the off. No one is going to spend one keystroke trying to change your mind.

I'm not knocking but you (and I) have made up our minds and aren't the intended targets of the two campaigns. The key for them is to focus resource on persuading people who haven't made up their minds of which, IMO, there are very few.

We could save an awful lot of money by having the vote tomorrow because 18 months of hot air isn't going to make a jot of difference to the result.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Let's not beat about the bush here. You've been wanting a referendum for years so you can vote no and come the day you'll be voting no.

Ok, lets not beat around the bush.

Appears to me you have absolutely nothing to give.

The argument honestly seems to fall down to the fact that multinational business can make money easier (while solely British business suffer) and it allows unfettered immigration - which is great if you can profit from the back of that, whether that be through increased demand for goods you hold or your business profits from immigration itself.

I've asked so many times for people to put something outside of this forward as reasoning's for being in the EU, but I don't get anything.

Surely it shouldn't be too hard for anyone pro-EU to put something forward regarding defence, health, security, living standards, technology...anything other than GDP and profits for multinationals and poor bankers.

I agree wholeheartedly with the waste of money all this hot air is. Which is why I'd like to see something targeted at families up and down the country instead of simple scare tactics from large business.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That appears to be the premise though.

Even the campaign to stay in the EU is 95% about money and business.

All this does not effect me personally. I'm not a business, and nothing I, or my family does for that matter relies on ties with the EU.

So if we come out of the EU, what's so negative for me, my family and thousands like us? Will I lose some human rights I take for granted? Will my kids suffer a worse education? Will I find I have to pay huge sums to drive on the roads? Will the power go out? Will quality of life fall drastically? Is my pension at risk? Will all the banks around me suddenly shut up shop? Will I be able to buy a German, French or Italian car? Will I still be able to enjoy a croissant every now and again? (that could be a deal breaker).

I'm honestly not all that concerned about a multinational company losing 0.098% of their annual multi millions of pounds in profit.

We keep being told it will be a distaster to leave the EU. I just want to know what that disaster entails....and if it's not being allowed to import foodstuffs or German beer I want to know about it....that, afterall, will be a disaster.

None of those disastrous things will happen.

If you and your family are completely unaffected by the EU I don't see why you're bothered one way or the other. Concern for others I bet.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

None of those disastrous things will happen.

If you and your family are completely unaffected by the EU I don't see why you're bothered one way or the other. Concern for others I bet.

It's not alien to some of us.

Just because we are not directly effected by a pulling out of the EU, it doesn't mean I don't have concerns about the EU itself and what it is growing into.

It's as much about the path the EU is taking - ever more integration that concerns me.

leveller2911

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's not alien to some of us.

Just because we are not directly effected by a pulling out of the EU, it doesn't mean I don't have concerns about the EU itself and what it is growing into.

It's as much about the path the EU is taking - ever more integration that concerns me.

Couldn't agree more but some on this section of the forum seem to have a fixation with what "business" wants. Apart from saying:" people have freedom of movement within 26 EU states" its all about what business wants and not what the average UK person wants. In all the years I've travelled I've not once had any problems getting in or out of a European country.

If thats the best they can come up with then their arguement for staying in is lost.They need to come up with some facts about why the EU is better for the average working class man/woman other than their opinion that if we come out jobs will be lost.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's not alien to some of us.

Just because we are not directly effected by a pulling out of the EU, it doesn't mean I don't have concerns about the EU itself and what it is growing into.

It's as much about the path the EU is taking - ever more integration that concerns me.

Fair enough. You worry EU membership has negative effects on others (although not you and your family) and you worry bad things might happen in the future.

wotsthat

leveller2911 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more but some on this section of the forum seem to have a fixation with what "business" wants. Apart from saying:" people have freedom of movement within 26 EU states" its all about what business wants and not what the average UK person wants. In all the years I've travelled I've not once had any problems getting in or out of a European country.

If thats the best they can come up with then their arguement for staying in is lost.They need to come up with some facts about why the EU is better for the average working class man/woman other than their opinion that if we come out jobs will be lost.

Don't see why what's good for business has to be negative for everything else.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Don't see why what's good for business has to be negative for everything else.

what exactly are the positives for everyone else about the excessive levels of pollution and particles emitted by diesel engines?

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I've asked so many times for people to put something outside of this forward as reasoning's for being in the EU, but I don't get anything.

Thinking about this I think the onus is on the no camp to explain what would be so great about leaving. The stay camp have the advantage of the status quo, and the implied fear of the unknown so can run a positive campaign.

The No camp are going to have to get the balance right between bigging up the future and looking like they're running the UK down.

If things were crap in the UK it might be an easier sell.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

what exactly are the positives for everyone else about the excessive levels of pollution and particles emitted by diesel engines?

I can't see any positives to excessive pollution. Why?