Sunday working issue

stevemLS

sangie595 wrote: »

Nothing in life is ever that easy - and certainly never as easy as the potted law on government websites. You asked here and were asked to give specifics. You asked on CAG and were asked the same thing. So what are you asking? There is a real situation somewhere in here - unless this is homework, in which case you need to do it yourself.

And on Legal Beagles, still with no clarity.

ohreally

What's your question caller?

Topcat1982

the_chairman wrote: »

An employer cannot dismiss an employee if they opt out of sunday working.The government make that clear on their website.That would be discrimination and would open the way for compensation, regardless of how short or long that person has been in employment.

If you've been there less than two years they can dismiss for no reason. They wouldn't have give the reason of opting out of Sunday.

DKLS

the_chairman wrote: »

An employer cannot dismiss an employee if they opt out of sunday working.The government make that clear on their website.That would be discrimination and would open the way for compensation, regardless of how short or long that person has been in employment.

Nice in theory, but in reality it doesn't work, if you have under 2 yrs service they can get shot for any reason they like, it doesn't have to be the truth, and if you have over 2 years service there are plenty of ways to manage you out of the business.

Takeaway_Addict

the_chairman wrote: »

An employer cannot dismiss an employee if they opt out of sunday working.The government make that clear on their website.That would be discrimination and would open the way for compensation, regardless of how short or long that person has been in employment.

proving it and having the will to pursue the claim are also required.

robatwork

I got as far as "sunday"

Gingernutty

the_chairman wrote: »

Can someone please say if an employee contract has to specifically mention the word "Sunday" to legally make someone work on a Sunday?

A contract doesn't have to specify days of the week for it to be valid.

the_chairman wrote: »

I have looked at Sunday working on gov.co.uk and this is what it states:-

Sunday working

Having to work on a Sunday depends on a person’s employment contract.

There are also special rules for shop workers and people who work in betting.

Check if Sunday working is mentioned in either:

• the employment contract
• the written statement of terms and conditions

A person can’t be made to work on Sundays unless they and their employer agree and put it in writing (eg change the contract).

Sunday working in shops and betting shops

Staff don’t have to work on Sundays if they’re:

• shop workers who started before 26 August 1994 and are still with the same employer (in Northern Ireland, this is before 4 December 1997)

• betting shop workers who started before 2 January 1995 and are still with the same employer (in Northern Ireland, this is before 26 February 2004)

Employers only have to pay staff a higher rate for working on Sundays if the contract says so.

All staff should be told about their Sunday working rights when they first start work.

Opting out of Sunday working

All shop and betting shop workers can opt out of Sunday working unless Sunday is the only day they have been employed to work on.

An employee can opt out of Sunday working at any time, even if they have agreed to work on Sundays in their contract.

The employee must give their employer 3 months’ notice that they want to opt out of Sunday working.

They must continue to work on Sundays during the 3 month notice period if their employer wants them to.

An employer who needs staff to work on Sundays must tell them in writing that they can opt out.

They must do this within 2 months of the person starting work - if they don’t, only 1 month’s notice is needed to opt out.

Staff who opt out of Sunday working mustn’t be treated unfairly.

An employee can’t be dismissed or treated in an unfavourable way for choosing not to work on Sundays.

Does the opt out apply to all employees regardless of what field they work in?

No.

the_chairman wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that if a contract does not specifically state the word "Sunday" then an employer cannot force the employee to work Sundays?

No. As stated previously, a contract doesn't have to specify days of the week for it to be valid.

the_chairman wrote: »

Am I also correct in saying that if;-

an employer and employee agree that the employee will work Sundays then it

a) has to be in writing and signed by both parties

and

b) that a new contract has to be created

or can there just be another document issued in writing, signed and dated by both parties amending the current terms of the contract that applies to the current contract?

No

the_chairman wrote: »

And lastly

if an employee wants to stop working Sundays, does that employee have to give 3 months notice in writing to the employer stating this.

Only if they are a shop or betting industry worker. And they must continue to work Sundays during the three month notice period.

From https://www.gov.uk

Opting out of Sunday working

All shop and betting shop workers can opt out of Sunday working unless Sunday is the only day they have been employed to work on.

An employee can opt out of Sunday working at any time, even if they have agreed to work on Sundays in their contract.

The employee must give their employer 3 months’ notice that they want to opt out of Sunday working.

They must continue to work on Sundays during the 3 month notice period if their employer wants them to.

An employer who needs staff to work on Sundays must tell them in writing that they can opt out. They must do this within 2 months of the person starting work - if they don’t, only 1 month’s notice is needed to opt out.

From https://www.NIdirect.gov.uk

Special rules if you're a shop worker or work in betting

If you work in a shop or in the betting industry (either at a betting shop open to the public or a bookmaker at a sports venue) you have special rights.

You can opt out of having to work on Sunday even if your contract says you have to. Your employer has to tell you about this right within two months of hiring you. These rights don't apply if you're employed to work on Sundays only.

You've quoted from NIDirect and gov.co.uk, the rules are similar

the_chairman wrote: »

An employer cannot dismiss an employee if they opt out of Sunday working.

The government make that clear on their website.

That would be discrimination and would open the way for compensation, regardless of how short or long that person has been in employment.

If you've been employed as a weekend worker specifically to cover Saturday and Sunday, you're on dodgy grounds if you want to try and change that.

If you've been employed on a ZHC, on an as and when required basis and you try to opt out, you might find that you'll not get any work at all.

If you've been employed for less than two years, you can be dismissed without being given any reason at all.

daytona0

As a side note but I didn't realise that you could opt out if working in the betting industry! The amount of Sunday shifts I got stitched up with all those years ago Ah well, Sundays are boring anyway in my opinion, so wouldn't opt out of working on those days!

Mersey_2

It's worrying the number of posters who think and post that anyone can be dismissed for any reason, if they have < 2 years' employment history at the firm.


Whilst I realise this does go on a lot, an employer is still meant to follow and document in writing a proper process, from calling a meeting on notice, taking notes and informing in writing the reason for any dismissal, paying PILON, NICs etc.


No wonder the number of ET cases and proceedings in the County Court for breach of contract are shooting up again, now people have got over the initial shock of the up front fee.

Gingernutty

Understood.

After 2 years service, a fired employee can sue for unfair dismissal, one of the commonest complaints found at Employment Tribunals.

If am employer is careful during the dismissal stage, it's extremely difficult to take an employer to court for most other reasons.

Discrimination is very difficult to prove as is constructive dismissal.