Speeding in company car dispute

privateparkingchanges

Good afternoon

I have fallen foul of the 14 day rule for NIP, as I have a company car, the police have as long as they want to notify me of speeding convictions. My company were made aware within 14 days, the company passed on my details to police.

I’ve had a letter through 4 months after the offence taking place. The case has been summoned to court as I am unsure who was driving the vehicle. It is a company car, in our policy we are held responsible for knowing who is driving the car assigned to us. I have chosen to represent myself. I am drafting what I’m going to say in court.

Any thoughts guys? I don’t want to land myself 6 points for not knowing who was driving.

Statement:

The car that is described is a company car that has been assigned to me for a period of 6 months from <company name>

Although I am the main assigned driver, as a XX company car, I am allowed to let other employees of XXXX drive the vehicle

During the period of <date of offence>, I did allow one of my colleagues drive the vehicle <make/model>. However, neither himself nor myself can be certain as of who was the driver that particular day.


The incident happened on the <date of offence>. I was notified of the incident over 4 months later on the xxx. With this delay this has complicated the matter in identifying who the driver was on the <date of offence>.

I did not want to entrap myself of an incident/crime that I may or may not have done, however, from this a valuable lesson has been sought, that if ever my vehicle is lent the day should be noted.

Due to the reason that I cannot identify the driver, this is the main reason who I am now taking responsibility of the incident. I am a law abiding citizen, and at no point want to undermine the law, however, I think it is important to stress your Honour, that it is unfair and unreasonable to remember of an incident that occurred 4 months ago.

I hope your honour you take this into consideration when you pass judgement.

tykesi

No judge so no need for 'your honour'

Can't see that defence working really, someone was speeding and you either take the wrap or put it on your colleague, it's not going to go unpunished.

privateparkingchanges

Agreed

But what is a reasonable amount of time to be informed? 4 months a bit much..?

tykesi wrote: »

No judge so no need for 'your honour'

Can't see that defence working really, someone was speeding and you either take the wrap or put it on your colleague, it's not going to go unpunished.

verityboo

You haven't stated the type of company or what the vehicle is used for but it seems strange that there are no records of what you or your colleague were doing that day and no mileage log

EdGasket

It's not a case of 'trying to remember who was driving 4 months ago', you are required to keep logs of who is using the company car and have failed to keep those records.

AdrianC

Is there any chance you can give the FULL sequence of affairs here...?

It doesn't just go straight to court from the lease company getting the initial NIP.

The lease company will have had it within the 14 days, and sent it back with the name and address of your employer - their customer - on it. They will have had the fresh NIP through, almost certainly within a month of the offence. So then what happened...? Did they check with the allocated user - you? Or just put your name on and send it back? Again, a few weeks and you'll have had the fresh NIP through. We might be up to a whole two months by now, but unlikely. Certainly not four.

Even then, you'll have a NIP. You will have responded to that, presumably, to say you didn't know.

Then, eventually, you'll get a court summons. Is that the stage you're now at?

Could neither of you genuinely refer back two months in your work diaries, looking at emails and the like, to genuinely say with anything approaching certainty? The location gave no clue at all?

Unless you come up with a MUCH better excuse than that, you are going to leave court with MS90 on your licence, and insurers REALLY don't like that...

comeandgo

You say in your company policy you are required to know who is driving the car, you are now saying you do not adhere to this policy, what course of action will your employer take?

privateparkingchanges

SlipperySid wrote: »

What is your summons for?

Not responding to NIP

AdrianC wrote: »

Is there any chance you can give the FULL sequence of affairs here...?

Apologies, I'm actually submitting this question of behalf of a colleague. He's just told me that he does not believe the NIP was issued within 14 days to company, I am getting him to confirm as this is important. He should be off the hook if this is the case.

If not I agree he needs to avoid the MS90 in court. Just say guilty for speeding?

comeandgo wrote: »

You say in your company policy you are required to know who is driving the car, you are now saying you do not adhere to this policy, what course of action will your employer take?

Its an automotive company, they sign the car over to us during lease, so we are legally responsible.

verityboo

privateparkingchanges wrote: »

Apologies, I'm actually submitting this question of behalf of a colleague. He's just told me that he does not believe the NIP was issued within 14 days to company, I am getting him to confirm as this is important. He should be off the hook if this is the case.


Its an automotive company, they sign the car over to us during lease, so we are legally responsible.

If its a lease car it would have been served to the lease company initially, not the company you work for. It should have been served to the lease company within 14 days

AdrianC

privateparkingchanges wrote: »

Not responding to NIP

Yes, I suspect as much. So, basically, he ignored it for 28 days plus, and hoped it'd go away. So saying "but I couldn't possibly..." is definitely not going to help.

He's just told me that he does not believe the NIP was issued within 14 days to company

Irrelevant. The 14 days only applies to the very first NIP, going to the registered keeper - and they seem not to have had any problem replying to it.

If not I agree he needs to avoid the MS90 in court. Just say guilty for speeding?

He can have both if he likes. TBH, he'll probably get both anyway. He's certainly guilty of failure to identify, and the circumstances make it very likely he knew damn well who was driving.

Hey-ho. Only nine points for the pair... I do hope his licence was clean to start with.

TonyMMM

The summons is for failing to name the driver (s172 RTA), not for not responding to the NIP.

Re the 14 days - For most company cars the NIP will go to a lease company first (few companies these days are shown as keepers on the V5c).

Did he at any time send full details of the possible drivers in response to the s172 request ?

He can't just say guilty to speeding, because unless it is on the summons, it isn't an offence he is charged with.

What he could do is speak to the prosecutor on the day and offer to plead guilty to a speeding charge if they drop the failing to nominate. Most prosecutors will do this. BUT - he must accept he was driving for that to happen - if he is any way at all equivocal e.g. saying "it might have been me, so I'll take the blame" , they will not allow him to plead guilty and the plea bargain will fail.

If he wants to, or is forced to defend the s172 then he will need to show why, with reasonable diligence, it was impossible for him to identify the driver. Keeping logs is not a legal requirement, but he should be expected to be questioned about why he doesn't , and to state in detail what other steps he took to work it out - just saying "I don't know" is nowhere near enough. The 4 month delay is in his favour, but it is still a very difficult type of case to win (but not impossible).