Fixed term contract - redundancy

sangie595

southernmonkey wrote: »

Thanks - we all have the same job title and have, up to now done very similar work. There is certainly nothing that sets us apart in terms of capability to do the work.

Last week i was told unofficially that my contract would not be renewed, my objectives were all dished out between my colleagues and I'm now left with no objectives to work on for the remainder of my contract.

In this unofficial chat, I was told that the new director sees the team being more streamlined in the future. No reference to my performance / capability or anything like that.

I am - more than 2 months over.

Then it has to be a decision that you make. You cannot sit on your hands, say and do nothing, and then make a claim. You will get precisely nowhere with a claim unless you have given the employer the opportunity to put it right. Which means you must submit a formal grievance outlining your argument that they have followed an incorrect process. If they have anything about them they will promptly follow the process and you will still be redundant. It's a stupid employer that doesn't get the answer they want. But there is no option for you - you show your hand or you accept it gracefully, because there is no middle road.

southernmonkey

Thanks sangie595. As I say, everything has been informal so far. I don't even think they realise that they have to dismiss me - the way it was presented to me seemed like they were of the impression I'd just leave at the end of my contract.

When you say 'you will still be redundant': done properly, it will be one of four identical positions that will be made redundant, not necessarily me - which makes it an even harder decision. I'm not sure I could throw someone else under that bus.

Thanks again for the advice - hopefully I can get myself in a position to resign before then and i won't need it!

sangie595

They do not have to "dismiss you" - they already did that because your contract contains the specified end date. So you have your notice already. It just came when you started! It still is a dismissal in law.

And I think you misunderstood me. If you successfully argue the four posts are equivalent and there should be a selection for the remaining posts, that is one thing. Unless you employer is relatively unique, they don't want a troublemaker who knows employment law better than they do - and the minute you raise the issue, they know that. As a result the pick the selection criteria to ensure that you are out anyway - they will just have evidence to show it was fair and objective! It doesn't matter if it is four or four hundred - tell me who you want rid of, and give me all their employment files, and I will design you a fair and objective procedure means that everyone on that list gets selected! It's a rare situation where management can't tell you beforehand who will get picked! So I am afraid that I don't think it would be a case of your throwing anyone else under the bus - just a case of the others and management wanting to throw you under it. It's hard enough with a union rep - if you want to take on that battle on your own you have to have a very thick skin, be prepared to take it all the way, and box clever on lining up your evidence. It's a hard balance to achieve. People do though - what you have to decide is if you want it. After all, you may not want to throw someone else under the bus, but thin for one second - the employer actually does it and does it totally impartially and fairly, and someone else is under the bus.... You will be working with the other two and management for some time after that, but you may not have won any popularity contests. That is why it has to be a conscious decision and a choice to go all the way or nothing - even if you won, you might not win.

southernmonkey

I see what you mean. Agreed. I wouldn't want to stay in an environment (which is already pretty poisoned) where I'd made things worse for others.

Although, from the gov.uk site, I read that as it is legally a dismissal, they have to 'show that there’s a ‘fair’ reason for not renewing the contract (eg, if they were planning to stop doing the work the contract was for).' When it says 'show' - does that mean show me? Or just be prepared to show that reason if challenged?

sangie595

southernmonkey wrote: »

I see what you mean. Agreed. I wouldn't want to stay in an environment (which is already pretty poisoned) where I'd made things worse for others.

Although, from the gov.uk site, I read that as it is legally a dismissal, they have to 'show that there’s a ‘fair’ reason for not renewing the contract (eg, if they were planning to stop doing the work the contract was for).' When it says 'show' - does that mean show me? Or just be prepared to show that reason if challenged?

In the end, what it means is that employment tribunal agree with them. Until that happens, it's moot whether they can show you or anyone else that it is fair. You can ask to be told why you - but I think that you already know the answer. The decision is based on the fact that you have a fixed term contract and nothing else, and that isn't fair. It then comes back to whether you ask, and whether you challenge what you are told. As I said, you can't do nothing and then make a tribunal claim.

southernmonkey

I see - when you read the law, it makes it sound like there's someone policing it and making sure they do the 'right' thing! If I do decide to do anything, I'll approach ACAS or the Union.


Thanks for all the advice - and taking the time to give it. It's really helped me understand my position and I'm really grateful for that.

sangie595

southernmonkey wrote: »

I see - when you read the law, it makes it sound like there's someone policing it and making sure they do the 'right' thing! If I do decide to do anything, I'll approach ACAS or the Union.


Thanks for all the advice - and taking the time to give it. It's really helped me understand my position and I'm really grateful for that.

If you are already in a union, talk to them. ACAS are as likely to get it wrong as right, and the union is there because you have paid for them to be. If they think you have a case they will represent you - ACAS can't.

jozxyqk

I was in a similar position a few years ago, but I was the only person in that role. I basically saw it as the writing being on the wall and started looking for another job, which thankfully I was offered a few weeks before my contract was up. It was then just a case of arguing for my statutory redundancy pay.

It was quite funny realising that I knew much more about employment law than the HR 'experts' with all their qualifications.