Buildings Insurance with(out) subsidence ?

ColinB

When we remortgaged 15 years ago, the surveyor said there was evidence of past settlement in the property. Nothing active, he just thought that some of the minor stonework cracks might have been caused by movement in the distant past (house is 120 years old). After a bit of a panic about insurance, our new lender said (after consulting with their underwriters) "no problem, we'll cover you" so I've been locked into that insurer ever since. After living in the house for a total of 25 years now, I'm pretty sure the surveyor was simply being ultra cautious - there's no evidence of subsidence or settlement, the repointing we did after the survey is still intact and nothing new has appeared.

But the problem is I'm paying through the nose for buildings insurance - every time I try to shop around, I get brought up sharply by the standard question about whether there has ever been any subsidence or settlement.

Can anyone suggest any way of erasing that "black mark" ? I could get another surveyor in, but even if he gives us a clean bill of health, that still wouldn't overcome the "Has there ever been any ..." question.

All ideas gratefully received, thanks in advance.

kingstreet

The property probably had some movement within the first fifteen ears of being built. That's normal.

It is neither subsidence or settlement in the sense you are using it

As long as it's described by the surveyor as "long-standing and non-progressive" it should give you no insurance issues.

If you'd touted that valuation around the insurance market at the time instead of choosing the most expensive option, a mortgage lender, you would have found out back then that this was a non-issue.

piratepaul

Try Halifax/HBOS if no current subsidence damage/not being monitored - I have been in a house for 8 years that had raft/underpinning repairs following 'subsidence/settling' in 2000 as a new build. Each year massive shop around as existing insurer kept putting premiums up e.g. £50 a year and ended up £550 for basic policy building & contents with no extra add ons. As per other threads AXA only ask the question if any subsidence in last 10 years so as soon as I could (10 years after repairs) I switched 3 years ago (£250) and they keep putting it up £50 a year - so now its £350 (still cheaper than the original insurer!) - however, there must be a better deal as its clearly a strong house no signs of repercussions (I have never had the house resurveyed (£150/£200 like some of the insurers insist upon before they quote £500+ for insurance!). Legal & Gen used to ask if subsidence 15 years ago but think I tried them last year with no joy. Now I have found Halifax ask if "currently any signs of damage/is property being monitored" - the answer to both aspects is 'No' so guess what cheap insurance back to £250 with a £50 cashback in a few months time (and back with my original insurer who was charging £550!). I work in general insurance and know about duty to disclose material facts that may be what an insurer wants to know about but if you check Halifax's 'eligibility statement' it is pretty clear its all about is there any signs of damage NOW etc. I even as a triple check called Halifax to verify the criteria re history of subsidence and they confirmed all fine. I also found this year that with compare the market you can get quotes with my subsidence history but they were near £400-450. Hope this is useful

ColinB

Thanks piratepaul, some useful steers there to try as I get closer to renewal.

RichieUK

Thanks piratepaul you just saved me £630. My insurance was up for renewal and had a renewal quote of £830 for buildings insurance from Lloyds Bank and £230 for contents from MoreThan. The house had subsidence repairs completed just over 10 years ago. I had tried AXA but they wouldn't give insurance cover to include having a lodger at my house. I tried online with Halifax for their Home Options Insurance which includes buildings and contents cover and got an initial quote of £250, but when I tried to complete the purchase of the policy it wouldn't cover me because of my Lodger. I phoned Halifax and was offered their Home Solutions package for £430 which I purchased. I mentioned about the previous subsidence work which had been repaired and signed off, and it didn't cause any problem.

magpiecottage

piratepaul wrote: »

I work in general insurance and know about duty to disclose material facts that may be what an insurer wants to know about

Under the Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations) Act 2012, it is only necessary to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation.

If the insurer asks, you must answer honestly and with reasonable care. If it does not ask, you are not obliged to volunteer it.

dacouch

magpiecottage wrote: »

Under the Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations) Act 2012, it is only necessary to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation.

If the insurer asks, you must answer honestly and with reasonable care. If it does not ask, you are not obliged to volunteer it.

I've seen Insurers change the wording of their questions / assumptions regarding subsidence before (Usually in error).

What happens is they end up attracting large amounts of customers whose property has suffered from subsidence in the past. Inevitably they end up paying out for a few more subsidence claims and alarm bells start ringing.

The response is to change the wording or their questions / assumptions. However the Insurers do not know which of their customers. So what usually happens is when they sell their homes and the buyers solicitor identifies the previous subsidence, they contact the current Insurer and ask for written agreement the current Insurer will provide cover for the buyer. The Insurer refuses to offer cover, as this generally happens shortly before the exchange date there is mass panic trying to rearrange cover at short notice.

The original Insurer who paid the subsidence claim is highly unlikely to be prepared to offer cover.

The cases I've been involved in (The seller rings me in a panic) have seen virtually all the sales fall through and the house gets readvertised at a lower price

magpiecottage

It sounds like the ABI agreement on transferring cover needs to be updated in the light of the new Act dacouch.

However, if the insurer has agreed not to consider subsidence prior to a particular time, it should not cause a problem.

dacouch

magpiecottage wrote: »

It sounds like the ABI agreement on transferring cover needs to be updated in the light of the new Act dacouch.

However, if the insurer has agreed not to consider subsidence prior to a particular time, it should not cause a problem.

The issue is to sell the house it's very difficult to do without the current Insurer agreeing to provide cover including subsidence for the purchasers.

The purchasers are new clients, so the Insurer is perfectly within their rights to refuse cover.

The Insurer have no obligation to the purchasers whatsoever.

ColinB

As the person who started this thread 4 months ago, I'd now like to close it off and say a big thank-you to the folks who kindly contributed.
My renewal arrived a few days ago for the princely sum of £791. As Kingstreet suggested, I checked the old survey report and it does indeed refer to "long-standing and progressive", so it looks like I've been over-paying unnecessarily - my fault entirely, d'oh. Following the hint from Piratepaul I got a quote from AXA: they do indeed only ask about issues in the last 10 years, and even after adding the various bells & whistles in the options the total came out to £281. Went back to my previous insurer, who refused to even contemplate reducing their premium, so I've left them and bought from AXA. I daresay their renewal next year will start ratcheting up, but at least I now know there are other options out there !