PAT testing & extension cables

purplepixi

Can anyone clarify or point me to the legislation regarding PAT testing etc.

I've been looking into running sewing courses at a local day centre, the only problem I have is the PAT testing. Whilst it's not a problem getting our equipment tested, we obviously can't see every person before the lesson with their sewing machines to test them.

I've been told the insurance on the building won't allow the use of the machines unless they've been PAT tested.

Now is there a way round this? I studied at a college a while ago where you could take your own machine as long as you took a surge protected extension cable.

If I provided PAT tested surge protected extension cables, would this solve the problem of needing the machines tested?

Any advice is welcome.

Thank you

bris

No it won't, each electrical item including the extension cables need their own test, right down to the kettle.

pooch

purplepixi wrote: »

Can anyone clarify or point me to the legislation regarding PAT testing etc.

I've been looking into running sewing courses at a local day centre, the only problem I have is the PAT testing. Whilst it's not a problem getting our equipment tested, we obviously can't see every person before the lesson with their sewing machines to test them.

I've been told the insurance on the building won't allow the use of the machines unless they've been PAT tested.

Now is there a way round this? I studied at a college a while ago where you could take your own machine as long as you took a surge protected extension cable.

If I provided PAT tested surge protected extension cables, would this solve the problem of needing the machines tested?

Any advice is welcome.

Thank you

I don't understand why you are seeking information on the relevent legislation in this regard. :huh:

You have already been informed

the insurance on the building won't allow the use of the machines unless they've been PAT tested.

Whether legislation requires it or not, it will not change the insurer's terms & conditions of cover.

Edit: Actually there is no single, specific legal requirement that dictates Portable Appliance Testing.
However, there are a number of legislations (e.g. Health & Safety at Work Act, Electricity at Work Regulations, et al) that require a safe working place which has been risk assessed accordingly, and a requirement that all equipment used in a work place is maintained, in good & safe working order, etc.

Note that any competent person can do this. Then you get into another legal minefield of potentially having to prove the person who did carry this out was competent, so a formal qualification is nice, but not necessarily essential.

I therefore suggest you find out exactly what the insurer's requirement is.

gingerdad

buy yourself a pat tester about £250.00 quid and do it there and then.

Mistral001

Surely the hall has had their equipment tested. Can you just refer the people who want to use their own machine to the person/firm that did that testing. I assume that the tester will be able to provide the students with a certificate after doing the test and will not charge a massive amount. Either that or have the tester come along on the first day of the class and do the tests then. Any people joining the course later will have to go along to the tester on their own accord.


PS you could offer free testing on the first day (paid by you at an agreed rate with the tester) and then get people who join later to pay for it themselves.

Savvy_Sue

The simplest solution will that be that you provide the machines, having got them tested and keeping them tested at the required frequency.

If anyone wants to bring their own, then they must take responsibility for getting them PA tested themselves, and I'd suggest as well as showing the sticker on the plug that you ask them to show some documentation from the tester. (This is from the days when I was helping run a conference, we ran into this problem, and someone said "what a nuisance, if I'd known I've got a stock of PA test stickers at home, I'd have brought some in and stuck them on.)

The other suggestions are valid:

• you can learn to diy - but what if you find a fault, are you going to be able to fix it? will the person accept there's a fault and go away and get it fixed?
  
• the kits aren't that expensive, the actual testing isn't rocket science, but see above, plus I believe you also have to pay to get the equipment calibrated regularly
  
• you MIGHT be able to arrange for someone to come in and test at the first class - but note that where I work, at one point we had a tester coming from some distance, he used to book several organisations in our are in the space of a week and stay with a relative, he certainly would not have been willing to come and do a few appliances at any other time.

londonTiger

You are a business so think like a business. It's not viable to pat test your customers machines so don't do it. You need to be firm and tell them that they can't use their own. If they bring in a cheap Chinese machine that hasn't been correctly wired and catches fire your insurance won't cover it and you potentially face unlimited costs

Lafuma

I usually find the help & advice offered on this site useful, but I must say, unfortunately, I can't necessarily say that for some of the 'advice' offered within this thread.

My guess is that the OP is a individual who has an interest and skills in sewing. As such they want other individuals who want to learn or improve on their own skills in this area. I don't think the OP is running some multi million pound business here. (Afterall this is the small business board).

Therefore whilst it may be "the simplest solution" for the OP to provide the machines, I'm not convinced this suggestion is appropriate in this instance. Not only would the cost of going to buy such machines be prohibitively expensive (not to mention the OP then having to find the space to store so many machines as well as arrange appropriate insurance for them against, for example, theft), but my guess is that the students will want to learn how to get the best out of their own specific machine, not an entirely different model provided by the OP.

As for the OP being subject to unlimited costs if a student, who had supplied their own machine, if because it was incorrectly wired electrically (assuming wiring of the machine is not part of the intended course content, and/or is not carried out as part of in class), well I'm not sure that is correct. If I were to supply my own vehicle as part of a driving test, and during that test it burst into flames, do you think I could sue the driving examiner?

I also think it is probably unrealistic to expect students who are required to bring their own sewing machine to first get them PAT appproved individually. Again the cost to the student will be prohibitively expensive ... probably about the cost of a new machine if done on an individual basis once travel time & costs of an electrician are taken into account. (I'm not saying even a new machine will not need to be tested, but just indicating the likely cost)
Or worse still, as testing can be carried out by any competent person, the OP will have to check out the credentials of each tester (assuming it's not all done by the same person) - especially since the tester is not reqired to have any formal qualifications/certifications.

I do think offering a 'free electrical safety check' (which would need to be mandatory) of the students machines at the commencement of the course of lessons would probably be the way forward. Or better still, as I suspect this will be rather time consuming, perhaps consider setting up a free introductory session with the students where you can explain what you you can offer, and perhaps more importantly what the students are actually hoping to achieve from the forthcoming lessons. Get them to bring their sewing machines to this session, so you know exactly what machine each student will be using, and get the PAT done then

mwarby

purplepixi wrote: »

Now is there a way round this? I studied at a college a while ago where you could take your own machine as long as you took a surge protected extension cable.

If I provided PAT tested surge protected extension cables, would this solve the problem of needing the machines tested?

Doesn't help you regarding insurance terms, but from an electrical safety point of view, you want to be thing RCD protection more than surge protection

RCD protection should cut the power in the event of an electrocution risk. A surge protector would protect the machine(not human) against damage from an electrical surge, note these won't do much\anything against major surges caused by lightening

londonTiger

Lafuma wrote: »

As for the OP being subject to unlimited costs if a student, who had supplied their own machine, if because it was incorrectly wired electrically (assuming wiring of the machine is not part of the intended course content, and/or is not carried out as part of in class), well I'm not sure that is correct. If I were to supply my own vehicle as part of a driving test, and during that test it burst into flames, do you think I could sue the driving examiner?

Completely different scenario here, let's get back to planet earth and use a similar scenario. You walk into a curry's store and another customer has brought in their flatbed trolly to buy a dozen plasma tellys (commercial buyer). You trip over the flatbed and hurt yourself.

You CAN sue the other customer but if you cannot sue them (because they're broke, refuse to give details) you can sue currys for allowing the other customer to bring in a flatbed trolly into the premises and violating health and safety rules. The ultimate buck will lie with currys because they have granted access into an open space which was NOT SAFE.

Your driving lesson scenario is completely wrong because the customer has invited the teacher into the customers space. The liability would be reverse. The instructor can sue the student if they do not have adequate insurance cover.