Logistics for a family move re school

Jhoney_2

tomtontom wrote: »

They don't hold back places. The exceptions to the ICS rule are twins, cared for children and those with a statement that specifies that school - this is the law, not something the local authority can choose to vary. An appeals panel can also grant a place, but there would need to be very strong grounds - in two years of sitting on panels I have allowed one ICS appeal.

It is refreshing to see someone doing their research, you'd be surprised how many do none!

My terminology was poor. What I meant was that I was made to believe that 'schools' have a few places in reserve - not the advertised places available to be allocated IYSWIM. Perhaps it was a poor description of the exceptions that you have explained above.

silvercar

@ Silvercar

This may be the result of their offer, but one I would have to decline. It would be reassuring to know that I wouldn't have to have given up what is in place currently to learn that news though.

If you decline an offer, their obligation ends. You can remain on waiting lists, but their obligation to provide a place has been honoured.

mrsmazza wrote:

That 3 mile rule is as the crow flies. Not if you take the public roads. Bizarre !!

Entry rules can be either crow flies or transport routes. Provision of transport has to be measured by safe routes. You can ask for the health and safety assessment of the safe walking route, if they are arguing that it is less than 3 miles. Your child cannot be expected to walk down roads that are unlit and have no pavement in the winter.
We have situations where the school bus follows one route and the safe walking route takes a different direction, meaning that free bus passes are awarded to children joining the bus at nearer stops but not the further stops.

silvercar

Jhoney wrote: »

My terminology was poor. What I meant was that I was made to believe that 'schools' have a few places in reserve - not the advertised places available to be allocated IYSWIM. Perhaps it was a poor description of the exceptions that you have explained above.

They don't. If someone went to an appeal on the grounds there was a place, they couldn't be denied it. If no one has appealed than possibly it is unallocated, but that is doubtful. Part of a school's funding is by number of pupils, so it would be bizarre to hold back a place waiting for twins/ in year movers etc.

Jhoney_2

silvercar wrote: »

They don't. If someone went to an appeal on the grounds there was a place, they couldn't be denied it. If no one has appealed than possibly it is unallocated, but that is doubtful. Part of a school's funding is by number of pupils, so it would be bizarre to hold back a place waiting for twins/ in year movers etc.

Not explaining myself very well am I. This is one example from current area re state school apps:-

"Tie Breaker. If more applications are received in
any one criterion than there are places available,
the oversubscription criteria will be re-applied
followed by the ‘tie-breaker’ of distance, measured
in a straight line. In cases where applicants live
equidistant from the preferred school and places
cannot be offered to both children, the available
place will be allocated using a random computer
selection. The only exception to this rule is the
case of twins or multiple-birth children. If one twin
can be offered a place, then all siblings will also
be offered places, even if this would exceed class
size limits."

My interpretation therefore, was that all x amount of places being offered are full, but they can offer a place or increase a class size.

I doubt that an appeal would be accepted, as in reality there isn't a place! As I mentioned, there is no holding back of a place in the situation above.

So eg all Y1 places in new area are full, so for arguments sake if a sibling twin was somehow already at a given school - they seem tosay that they would they have (or be prepared) to place them anyway?

It doesn't apply in my case:), but just befuddling and interesting should such a rare thing happen!

Conversely in terms of my enquiry, they may be saying in their response so far- and I will get confirmation - that as all things are equal in that they have NO Y1 places borough wide, depending on where I end up residing specifically, that the nearest/my preference would be obliged to accept an app? Or will they send us out of borough altogether for 'a place'?

tomtontom

Jhoney wrote: »

Question, when they make that exception - as required by law, does the school get funding for an extra teacher due to the change in teacher/child ratio?

In your experience, is that one of the reasons that the appeals fail (e.g cost vs necessity) or is that simply scam/late apps, poor grounds for appeals etc?.

They would receive funding for one extra child, but not for an extra teacher - they would still be in the same class.

Both your reasons are taken into account when allowing an appeal. First we will consider if there are valid reasons for appeal, and then whether those reasons outweigh the "cost" to the school - the cost being the impact on the other children, as well as the financial and material practicalities.

Every case has valid reasons for appeal, but those reasons may not a) meet the strict ICS criteria, and b) outweigh the cost to the school. "I like the uniform" is a valid reason, but it won't get a place

Jhoney wrote: »

My terminology was poor. What I meant was that I was made to believe that 'schools' have a few places in reserve - not the advertised places available to be allocated IYSWIM. Perhaps it was a poor description of the exceptions that you have explained above.

No, definitely no places in reserve. The tie breaker you describe actually confirms that, if two people are eligible for place 30 then only one will get a place - unless those two children happen to be twins, statemented etc.

If there really are no places available then they'll find you one, but it will be the LA's choice, not yours.

silvercar

"Tie Breaker. If more applications are received in
any one criterion than there are places available,
the oversubscription criteria will be re-applied
followed by the ‘tie-breaker’ of distance, measured
in a straight line. In cases where applicants live
equidistant from the preferred school and places
cannot be offered to both children, the available
place will be allocated using a random computer
selection. The only exception to this rule is the
case of twins or multiple-birth children. If one twin
can be offered a place, then all siblings will also
be offered places, even if this would exceed class
size limits."

My interpretation therefore, was that all x amount of places being offered are full, but they can offer a place or increase a class size.

I doubt that an appeal would be accepted, as in reality there isn't a place! As I mentioned, there is no holding back of a place in the situation above.

So eg all Y1 places in new area are full, so for arguments sake if a sibling twin was somehow already at a given school - they seem tosay that they would they have (or be prepared) to place them anyway?

You are mixing the in-year application criteria with the standard admission criteria. They are sometimes different - particularly in the case of one child in a family moving to a school not automatically giving places to all the siblings. What happens in practice, for admissions that are not at the normal intake time, is that the siblings are placed at the top of the waiting list as they jump up the criteria by having a sibling at the school.

Conversely in terms of my enquiry, they may be saying in their response so far- and I will get confirmation - that as all things are equal in that they have NO Y1 places borough wide, depending on where I end up residing specifically, that the nearest/my preference would be obliged to accept an app? Or will they send us out of borough altogether for 'a place'?

If there is genuinely no place anywhere, they will tell you they are working on it and keep you at bay for a few weeks. In practical terms, someone, somewhere will be leaving a school. House moves/ emigration/ withdrawing/ going private.

I would imagine that if push came to shove they send you over the boundary. Some people live near boundaries, so crossing a virtual line is not that rare.

Jhoney_2

Yes, it seems the thing to do is focus on good secondary schools as Littlemax suggested.

The location I hope to move to in new area is actually equidistant between the prim/sec by 1/2 mile so will continue with that and see what they throw at us. Anyone looking for 'home school' pupils? lol