sold as a 4x4 but missing propshaft do i have a claim?

motorguy

Tilt wrote: »

Is this just your experience or is there actual evidence of this available? Or could it be that your'e in the wrong business?

I would back up what hes saying. Customers will blatantly lie about the condition of their trade in and certainly wont tell of you of any faults - not all of them of course, but a lot more than you'd think

Sometimes you pick them up sometimes you dont. Typical examples are :-

• Outstanding finance
• Car was an write off
• Turbo faults that manifest themselves over a certain speed
• Engine Management light bulbs removed
• Airbag bulbs removed
• Propshafts removed (as above)
• Head Gasket issues hidden
• Complex faults passed off as minor faults. "It just needs a..."
• Intermittent faults
• Issues starting from cold
• Glow Plugs snapped off
• Overheating on long journeys
• Smokey when cold

I've also had customers :-

• Remove factory fit CD players from their car before handover
• Steal items from the car they have test driven

And how many times do you read on forums "just trade it in" when someone has a problem?

Talk to any trader and they'll tell you the same

motorguy

bartelbe wrote: »

The reason the rules around car dealers are stricter than private sellers is because it is assumed a person in the trade will have expertise about cars. Therefore it is not valid for the dealer to claim they did not know about the fault.

Dealers should have enough knowledge about the cars they are selling, to sell them in a road worthy condition and know that the vehicle is as describe.

He sold you a 4x4 which is not a 4x4. Worse it is now rear wheel drive, which makes it far more difficult to drive in snow and ice conditions. Imagine what would happen if you took it out in winter conditions, thinking it was all wheel drive and then lost control, because it is not?

I doubt this car was ever designed to run rear wheel drive, it will have been designed as front or all wheel drive.

Dealers oversight, dealers problem. The dealers union on here will disagree, but it is their job to properly check their stock before sale.

Speaking as an ex dealer, yes, i totally agree.

If the car is traded in with a major fault, its up to the dealer to know that at the "expert". If he doesnt pick up on it, then its still his responsibility if it subsequently transpires.

The only grey area here is the length of time its taken the O/P to pick up on it.

Technically, after six months, its up to the buyer to prove that the fault was there at the time of sale, not for the dealer to prove it wasnt, which in this case would mean proving the propshaft wasnt there at the time of sale.

Tilt

motorguy wrote: »

I would back up what hes saying. Customers will blatantly lie about the condition of their trade in and certainly wont tell of you of any faults - not all of them of course, but a lot more than you'd think

Sometimes you pick them up sometimes you dont. Typical examples are :-

• Outstanding finance
• Car was a write off
• Turbo faults that manifest themselves over a certain speed
• Engine Management light bulbs removed
• Airbag bulbs removed
• Propshafts removed (as above)
• Head Gasket issues hidden
• Complex faults passed off as minor faults. "It just needs a..."
• Intermittent faults
• Issues starting from cold
• Glow Plugs snapped off
• Overheating on long journeys
• Smokey when cold

I've also had customers :-

• Remove factory fit CD players from their car before handover
• Steal items from the car they have test driven

And how many times do you read on forums "just trade it in" when someone has a problem?

Talk to any trader and they'll tell you the same

Undoubtedly there are quite a few rogue customers, I am not disputing that. But to say there are "10's of thousands for every one bad business" is a tad of an exaggeration in my opinion.

But in any event, surely the more reason to check the vehicles you are taking in thoroughly before selling them on? A dealer/trader is supposed to be the expert, not the consumer.

motorguy

Tilt wrote: »

But in any event, surely the more reason to check the vehicles you are taking in thoroughly before selling them on? A dealer/trader is supposed to be the expert, not the consumer.

Oh yes, totally agree.

And sometimes as a trader you do get "stung" but you have to accept that.

4x4s are a disaster to retail anyway - unless you've a huge markup and / or are dealing in big ticket stuff they're not worth the risk (or inevitability) of an expensive warranty claim.

burlington6

Tilt wrote: »

Undoubtedly there are quite a few rogue customers, I am not disputing that. But to say there are "10's of thousands for every one bad business" is a tad of an exaggeration in my opinion.

But in any event, surely the more reason to check the vehicles you are taking in thoroughly before selling them on? A dealer/trader is supposed to be the expert, not the consumer.

Not at all. There are around 65 million people in the uk. The adult population is still in the tens of millions. Far more than there are businesses

What you have on sites like MSE are customers doing everything they can to shaft businesses and getting advice off others on how they can do this on a technicality.

The consumer board is full of chancers every day

dannyrst

burlington6 wrote: »

Not at all. There are around 65 million people in the uk. The adult population is still in the tens of millions. Far more than there are businesses

The comparison originally made is like comparing the number of faulty Fords to the number of faulty Aston Martins and saying that Fords are less reliable because more of them go wrong (completely ignoring the fact there are more Fords on the road than Aston Martins).

BeenThroughItAll

movilogo wrote: »

However, any 4x4 fault should thorw a warning light in dashboard.

Not if it's a mechanical system controlled by viscous couplings/gerotor pumps and LSDs.


Take a propshaft off a mk1 Freelander, and there'll be no light. Take one off my Grand Cherokee and there'll be no light.

Sophsters1982

Ive just missed a call from trading standards, the CAB have involved them now. Hope to speak to them on tuesday when the guy is back at his desk.

dannyrst

Sophsters1982 wrote: »

Ive just missed a call from trading standards, the CAB have involved them now. Hope to speak to them on tuesday when the guy is back at his desk.

Left his desk for a long time! :rotfl:

Give us an update when you speak to them.

forgotmyname

Save yourself the hassle and get a used prop, they are cheap and then you will know if thats the only problem or if there is another issue.