Illegal Council Flat Subletting?

Rickyb30

A few months ago the new occupants arrived at the council flat next door to us. Those occupants have never been seen again, and instead there has been non-stop movement in and out of the flat; from a father with three children (keep in mind this is a very small flat) to students and other various people, who, worryingly, all have keys to the flat. I'm pretty sure the flat is being illegally subletted, which is kind of a big deal considering it's a flat owned by the government.

My neighbours on the other side have said that the council are fully aware of the situation, and that they are in the process of being taken to court, however it is being done in such a way that their anonymity is ensured. The reason I am posting here is to ask: How long is it going to take? And is there anything I can do to speed it up? I'm not sure about how this situation will be resolved however I would appreciate any responses.

Thanks.

Rambosmum

You can't speed it up. It's a legal process, it takes a while. Subletting is not illegal, it's breech of contract and the council will have sue the leasees as well as legally evict the subletters as though the leasee has breeches their contract the people submerging may well have a legally binding contract that has to go through the proper process to be ended.

no1catman

Surely, it's not just 'breach of contract' but also Fraud?
Moreover, any contract the council tenant has with any sub-lets is to my mind questionable to say the least - they don't have title.
The Council have to gather the evidence to show that the tenant is not living there, to ensure they have a successful prosecution - a jail term could be the result, and money recovered.


Contact the Council Fraud office, to add what you have seen to their file of evidence. The sooner it's all done, the sooner someone who deserves it can be in it.

Rambosmum

On the house buying, renting board you see the victims of this every so often. They have a right to reside if they have a tenancy agreement, until it expires when the council needs a court order to evict. Often these tenents are paying well above council rent rates and lose their deposits.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

How do you know the council isn't using it specifically as temporary accommodation?

xHannahx

Rambosmum wrote: »

You can't speed it up. It's a legal process, it takes a while. Subletting is not illegal, it's breech of contract and the council will have sue the leasees as well as legally evict the subletters as though the leasee has breeches their contract the people submerging may well have a legally binding contract that has to go through the proper process to be ended.

Subletting is unlawful on certain types of council tenancy.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/subletting-and-lodging/subletting/unlawful-subletting-of-social-housing-criminal-offences/

Guest101

The sub tenants still have legal protection.

Which is completely correct as they are victims too.

BigAunty

no1catman wrote: »

Surely, it's not just 'breach of contract' but also Fraud?
.

In the past, this kind of sub-letting was only ever a civil matter, a breach of tenancy agreement with the landlord that could only ever be dealt with through the court eviction/repossession process that would never involve the Police.

I know there were plans to change this but I'm not aware of the status of it.

The only way (at least in the past) that it could have a potentially criminal fraud element is if the original tenants claimed HB while not living there or other means tested benefits when receiving rental income.

I recall a recent news article where a social housing tenant was charged with criminal offences for claiming income related benefits while renting out their property on these grounds.

BigAunty

Rambosmum wrote: »

On the house buying, renting board you see the victims of this every so often. They have a right to reside if they have a tenancy agreement, until it expires when the council needs a court order to evict. Often these tenents are paying well above council rent rates and lose their deposits.

The way it works, AFAIK, is that the landlord applies to evict the original tenants named on the tenancy agreement with them.

The repossession process means that it applies to them and any other occupants that happen to be in the property.

Once the landlord gets a possession notice from the court and the property is not then vacated, they can then return to court to get an enforcement notice - it doesn't matter who is in the property when the court appointed bailiff's turn up - all occupants are removed and the police will also help if necessary, if there is resistence.

There is no requirement to honour the terms of the subletters tenancy agreement that the tenant arranged without the landlord's knowledge or permission.

The hazard of being a subletter is that their rights with the de mesne (intermediary landlord, i.e. the actual social housing tenants) are not as strong as between that of the social housing landlord and their actual tenant.

VfM4meplse

Rambosmum wrote: »

On the house buying, renting board you see the victims of this every so often. They have a right to reside if they have a tenancy agreement, until it expires when the council needs a court order to evict. Often these tenents are paying well above council rent rates and lose their deposits.

Its the landlords that are complete scum. They see a chance to make a quick buck at the expense of the taxpayer and vulnerable families, and grab it with both hands.

BigAunty

Rickyb30 wrote: »

: How long is it going to take? And is there anything I can do to speed it up? I'm not sure about how this situation will be resolved however I would appreciate any responses.

.

Ask on the housing forum.

AFAIK, it can take months to secure possession of a property from tenants, in both the private and social housing sector.

It is even harder in the social housing sector as the tenancies are generally secure or colloquially known as 'life time' tenancies.

Unlike private tenancies which don't require the landlord to prove a fault on the part of the tenant,, a social housing landlord is obliged to provide very high proof that the tenant has breached the terms of their tenancy contract.

The Shelter website will have a section on the eviction process for social housing tenants that should be able to answer your questions. It is a website that provides free housing advice. It's pitched at tenants but even as a neighbour, you will be able to glean from it the steps that the council must take.

I wonder whether you may be able to ask the new tenants that you see entering the property where the property is advertised so that you can track down the website or letting agency they are using and identify the ads, to pass onto the council as evidence. For example, pretend you have a relative that is interested in moving there when it is next free.

However, it may be the case that it is being let out informally through word of mouth without any kind of electronic trail like an ad on Gumtree and so on. You could search common accommodation websites to see if you can uncover any live ads for it.

Still not sure that this will help the case even if you unearth the ad - might be hard to prove its the actual property just from general pictures and so on.