NPE parking charge

Jkbromley

I received a parking charge invoice from NPE. We were spending a weekend in Norwich and parked on the forecourt of the row of shops which included the KFC on Dereham Road.
This was a7 pm on Sunday, so none of the shops were open.
I have been reading through all the posts regarding this problem, and have appealed the charge using your template letter and received a popla code, NPE mentioned several times in their refusal that the letter I sent was a template.
I applied to appeal to popla and have been referred to the ombudsman, so now I have to make my appeal to them.
I have read everything I could find on your forums, but feel overwhelmed by the legal language the appeals seem to include. Is it necessary to include these terms or can I just state my reasons for appeal simply?
I have another 2 weeks to reply but would appreciate any help, since I am beginning to wonder if it is too difficult and I would be better just giving in a paying to avoid the stress, although it goes against the grain to allow them to rip me off.

The_Slithy_Tove

To get any help, you will need to post up all relevant correspondence, starting with the initial ticket, but particularly your POPLA appeal, their evidence, the POPLA result - in full (with personal details redacted).

Umkomaas

'Telling your story' will lead to only one thing - rejection and a continuing relationship with the PPC. It has to be done on technical and legal points.

There is no standard POPLA template, but your appeal needs to cover the following:

1. No keeper liability (but you need to check the NtK for correct dates and all requirements of PoFA have been included) - see here:
http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

2. Signage
3. No Contract with landowner to pursue charges in their own name at court
4. No proprietary interest in the land
5. Unlawful Penalty Charge
6. ANPR Accuracy (if appropriate)
7. No genuine pre-estimate of loss (GPEOL)

Read very carefully post # 3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky - it contains information important to your appeal.

There are plenty of examples of winning POPLA appeals across the forum; here are a couple of links for you to follow and research:

How to win at POPLA:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62180281&postcount=15

Some of the appeals linked here are now becoming a little dated, so be careful to use one of the more recent ones as your guide to framing your own.

Please don't do a 'copy and dump' of the first thing that looks 'legal' enough, then expect regulars to pick it apart and amend it all for you. We won't do that, so you need to understand what you're copying, you need to proof read it and make sure any references you make (Beavis in particular) are up to date, and everything relates broadly to your parking event.

POPLA Decisions

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337

Read from the most recent backwards to get a feel for the appeal points on which POPLA Assessors are currently upholding appeals.

However (and importantly) things have changed on the POPLA front, with the service having been taken over by The Ombudsman Service Ltd. Please read the following links to understand the process you will need to follow:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/popla-changeover-starts-tomorrow.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/new-popla-process.html

So the 'new' POPLA is now up and running, you will need to get your appeal in by the deadline you've been given. We don't know how they will assess and adjudicate appeals, so we won't be able to give anything like the conditional assurance we have previously - until we see several outputs from the new service.

The_Deep

I ... feel overwhelmed by the legal language the appeals seem to include. Is it necessary to include these terms or can I just state my reasons for appeal simply?


Think of it as a problem solving exercise, rather like a cross word puzzle.


It is not for window lickers, but it is certainly not rocket science. You stand a far better chance at PoPLA (Ombudsman Services) using legal language, but if it gets to court you can use the language of The Man on the Clapham Omnibus.

Grimble

NPE does not do court, he normally pulls out of POPLA when he see a good case. If I remember correctly this is done with CCTV, so challenge times, signage is also bad, look on here for NPE cases on Dereham road.

Jkbromley

I am still reading through all the appeals, cant find one specifically for NPE,
I just received a letter from NPE this morning saying that since I had neither paid the fine nor appealed to POPLA I have to pay £100 within the next 14 days, or it goes up to £150
I did register an appeal with POPLA and they sent a e.mail telling me I had to wait and appeal to the ombudsman,
They sent a notification saying my appeal had to be in within 28 days from the 14th September.
Is it worth sending this the NPE or do you think I should ignore it and plow on with making an appeal
Sorry to be a pain, but I am finding it difficult to sort out.

Grimble

Complain to the BPA, an email will stop this, ignore NPE threats he could say £10,000, he still will receive the same amount £0. Plough on with the appeal, you have to use the legal arguments as stated above.

Umkomaas

Have a read of this thread on PePiPoo. Someone has just won his POPLA appeal against NPE.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=100543&st=0

ampersand

Also, beware of Jon, doing this:
aimeeMLVC
here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337
#1868

Important to be aware of potential criminal act by NPE Jon.

Jkbromley

I have researched as much as I can, and have compiled the following, please can anyone let me know if it is enough.


I wish to appeal this charge for the following reasons.

I. Inadequate signage
II. No Contract with landowner to pursue charges in their own name at court and No proprietary interest in the land
III.. Unlawful Penalty Charge No genuine pre-estimate of loss (GPEOL)



1. The signage was not compliant with the BPA Code of Practise so there was no valid contract formed between NPE and the driver.
The signs were not seen by the occupants of the car on entering the parking space. The signs are placed between windows of shops not noticable from the road therefore it was impossible to see them before parking. No contract could have been formed at the entrance to the premises prior to parking. It is not formed after the vehicle has already been parked as this is too late.
Also on viewing the photographs sent by NPE of the parking signs, the first line indicates that restrictions apply only during the shop opening hours. Since the photo shows the car parked at 7.06 on Sunday evening when all the shops were closed it would not have occurred to anyone that there would be any other restriction..A notice is not imported into the contract unless brought home so prominently that the party MUST have known of it and agreed terms The driver did not see any sign so there was not consideration or acceptance and no contract agreed between the parties.



11. Lack of the NPE's proprietary interest in the land and no contract with the landowner. I believe NPE have no proprietary interest in the land to issue charges and pursue them in their own name, including at court level. If they do have such interest then I put them to strict proof to provide POPLA with the Deeds of Title in the land. In the absence of such title, NPE must have contractual authority from the landowner to issue and pursue charges. I do not believe such a document is in existence. I therefore put NPE to strict proof to provide POPLA with a contemporaneous copy of the contract between them and the landowner which provides them with the authority to issue and pursue charges, including to pursue them at court in their own name. Please note that a 'Witness Statement' to the effect that a contract is in place between NPE and the landowner will be insufficient to provide all the required information, and will therefore be unsatisfactory.


111. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable charge. No Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss. The Department for Transport guidelines state, in Section 16 Frequently Asked Questions, that: "Charges for breaking a parking contract must be reasonable and a genuine pre-estimate of loss. This means charges must compensate the landholder only for the loss they are likely to suffer because the parking contract has been broken. For example, to cover the unpaid charges and the administrative costs associated with issuing the ticket to recover the charges. Charges may not be set at higher levels than necessary to recover business losses and the intention should not be to penalise the driver." In this case, NPE has failed to provide any calculation to show how the £100 figure is arrived at, whether as an actual or pre-estimated loss. It is the Appellant's position that NPE has suffered no loss whatsoever in this case. Even if there was a contract (which is denied), the £100 parking charge is arbitrary and disproportionate to any alleged breach of contract or trespass. There has been no loss to the landowner as this is a free car park and the shops were closed. I put NPE to strict proof to provide POPLA with a ‘Genuine Pre-estimate of Loss’ incurred due to my vehicle remaining on their parking area for any given period of time. This is therefore an unenforceable penalty and I respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed.
NPE have also stated that “Following the judgement of the Court of Appeal in ParkingEye v Beavis on 23rd April 2015, we can confirm that the parking charge is considered to be a deterrent to parking in a restricted area and the charge is not extravagant or unconscionable. The parking charge is not a penalty and the issue of genuine pre-estimate of loss is not relevant.” However the ParkingEye V Beavis case has not been settled and is being taken to the Supreme Court and I do not believe it can be used as evidence by NPE.

Jkbromley

NPE claim they have not received any notification from POPLA regarding my appeal, I have e.mailed copies of the notifications I received both from POPLA telling me to wait and appeal to the Ombudsman and stating they have informed NE to take no further action, and also one from the Ombudsman dated the 14th September telling me I have 28 days to appeal.
NPE have not replied to these