Be Unlimited

beeb_boy

Hi all

I need to get broadband for working from home but I don't want to be tied into a 12 month contract. I saw the Be Unlimited offer which even though it's £24 per month the speed is good and it's only a 3 month contract. The thing is I hope to move house later this year hence the reason for not getting tied into a 12 monther.

Has anyone used this service?

Or does anyone know of another company that offers cheaper BB for 12 months with no moving charge?

I will more than likely need to be wireless and Be Unlimited supply a wireless router included in package. I would look at other packages that gave me at least 4mb (preferably faster) speeds.

I only want broadband though, I don't want to have a package of phone and telly plus I don't want cable.

Thanks for any advice!

christopher

Quidco referrals will get you some money off unless they're not doing it now.

I've been a Be* customer for the past year, switched to VM XL 20Mb at the behest of my housemates (our crap phoneline could only get just under 10Mb so it was deemed to be a waste, unfortunately), although they have their problems now and then they're a wonderful ISP - the user forums are bustling with knowledgeable people and if I've ever had a problem with either the service or the kit, a few posts on there and a bit of mental legwork later and it's all solved.

Most of the common queries (speed queries, etc) are all answered already on there, so my first suggestion is READ THE FORUMS! But the freephone customer support line does help too, even though they're in Bulgaria they invariably speak excellent English and can answer most queries. You can even ring them at 5am... In fact, if you ring them during the night, you'll probably end up speaking to the same person if you have to ring more than once

lindens

I am with Zen and you only have to sign up monthly. They charge £24.99 per month for up to 8mb speed and up to 20GB download allowance. Very good service, good support too.

christopher

True, Zen are also a very good ISP if you can't get LLU. Parents have it, with the higher cap (40Gb) and it's near as darned never fallen over or gone wrong (except for when we've had power cuts!) I recommended them and I'm glad I did

If I couldn't get LLU, and if I could afford it, I'd either go with Zen or one of the Entanet resellers like UKFSN... One of the nice things about Zen is that if you're doing a fair bit of uploading (torrents etc) your upload isn't counted in your monthly quota.

lindens

Whats LLU?
Only we only get 2mb because of the exchange and my OH wants it faster for online gaming?

christopher

lindens wrote: »

Whats LLU?
Only we only get 2mb because of the exchange and my OH wants it faster for online gaming?

LLU = Local Loop Unbundling.

LLU is the process by which BT 'unbundle' the 'final mile' from the local exchange to your house, effectively letting other companies install their kit in local exchanges to provide you with service over their kit using the final loop of BT copper. They were forced to do it by Ofcom, basically, I'm sure they never wanted to open up their network because as time's gone on, it's revealed just how shockingly poor it is! LLU is a mess, just like ADSL Max, but it will improve.

The best thing about LLU is the providers... You get a good one, and a good line, and the speeds are marvellous.

This is what Nildram have to say about LLU (not a lot):
http://www.nildram.net/faqs/question/what-is-llu%3F

The SamKnows FAQ about LLU is much more informative:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/faq.php (scroll down to the FAQ which is titled "What is Local Loop Unbundling (LLU)?" for more).

Here's an Ofcom page about LLU:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/broadband/dsl_facts/LLUbackground.htm


BT's 21CN upgrades are interesting. One of the benefits of the 21CN is that eventually all of the country's exchanges will effectively be LLU-capable. Aside from that, the main upgrades are to the voice and business side of BT's networks: instead of telephone calls going over the oldskool switched networks (with a physical line connected from point A to point all calls will eventually be converted into IP traffic - like VoIP products, except all done transparently so you never see a difference - which will allow BT to consolidate all its traffic as IP traffic, manage it more effectively, dump some of the really old, complicated setups in big exchanges and simplify their network infrastructure.


It's a cost-saving exercise which will bring some benefit for consumers, but hardly as much as BT are making out with all their PR spin. If you have a bad line or slow broadband now, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever get much faster on a 21CN line or an LLU connection.

Unfortunately there's no magic bullet and if you only get 2Mb from your line now an LLU connection will possibly fare ever so slightly worse speed wise if your line is really awful. And, BT being BT, they want £185 for a new line installation, so they can off bog. And they have no obligation to supply anything above what Ofcom defined as a broadband-capable line (which is something like 128kbps) because you're using data services over a BT voice line so they don't want to know, they only care one jot about the broadband if you get BT Broadband (and even then it's an uphill struggle). I had line problems all year on my LLU line and it really hampered the speed.


That said... If you *can* get service with an LLU provider like Be* (they sometimes won't give you service if you're just too far away to get a viable connection, but there are people who get similar speeds to you now) then they can be good value for money - 1 month contracts (with a 3 month rolling notice period for cancellation or an express cancellation charge of £50, so basically 3 month contracts) of just £24 and no bandwidth restrictions plus helpful forums can still mean that if you're after a good connection and one which is an alright price it can sometimes meet your requirements.


Best of luck...

normanmark

christopher wrote: »

If you have a bad line or slow broadband now, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever get much faster on a 21CN line or an LLU connection.

Would love to know where you've got the facts behind this outrageous statement?

As far as im aware, BT are soon to be trialling 24mb max products, which will mean customers on an existing 500kbs service (due to line length/quality) could see an increase in speed to 2mb.

In future the scope is there for all customers to recieve faster broadband, with the 21CN all you'll have is a data line going into properties which automatically means customers will see an increase in broadband speed on the whole!

christopher

I speak from real life experience and observation. I have a couple of relatives who'd be classed as 'borderline' for DSL services, getting 2Mb on Max, who have switched to LLU products and gained no real shout-about-it speed increase, plus I've discussed with other users on Be* who have VERY long lines, seen their line stats, discussed line quality and length, date of installation etc, so I have a pretty good idea of how ADSL2+ migration is affected by line quality. As the UK copper network stands today, I'm not hopeful.

The scope is there for faster broadband products in the future IF (and it's a big if) BT decide to go digital from central exchange to CPE, but I highly doubt they'll ever do that due to the ridiculously high cost of bringing the local loop up to a quality sufficient for decent IP services. A lot of phone lines in the UK don't even manage to deliver their 4KHz of voice spectrum that well, DSL is even worse and with the average speed of broadband in the UK currently just 3.5Mbps when the scope is there for up-to-8Mb already, it doesn't bode well.

The tail-off of speed versus distance is not linear for ADSL2+ services, granted the technology fares slightly better at distances of 4.5km and above (delivering slightly better IN THEORY than ADSL1), Internode (an Aussie ISP) did a comparison of ADSL1/ADSL2RE/ADSL2+ speeds, and graphed up some real life results based on feedback from their customers a while back, see here: http://www.internode.on.net/adsl2/graph/

While they're in Australia, it's the same tech over about-the-same quality lines, so I'd say it's pretty accurate. The problems I've seen with 2+ services is that line noise and things like HR faults, interference (both EM and RF) affect the actual uptime and stability of ADSL2+ connections so much more than with Max... There's going to be swathes of customers bombarding BT with fault reports which BT are just going to ignore, once 21CN is rolled out UK-wide, because there's so many latent faults which would otherwise go unnoticed upstream in the core copper network. You might have a brand new tie pair from your street cab to your house, but if there's a line fault upstream which doesn't affect voice, only data, you're screwed pretty much unless your ISP can get OpenReach to do something about it. I've had enough experience with that whole process in the past 12 months to know that the network as it stands today just can't withstand that many customers trying to get faults resolved at the same time.

Retrofits of newer, more demanding technology onto old core infrastructures hardly ever work, nor do they last for long before the honeymoon period is over. Invariably it'll cost Openwoe more in the long run, which will raise wholesale costs and will most possibly negate any planned savings from the 21CN endeavour. See why I'm cynical about the whole thing now?

With the 21CN roadmap as it currently stands, there's going to be no change in the local loop or CPE. There will hopefully be the move to FTTC, with the DSLAMs moving into cabs on individual streets, but that'll be a LONG time coming. For the foreseeable future, it's still going to be an analogue phone line to the home, which is such a waste really.

normanmark

christopher wrote: »

The scope is there for faster broadband products in the future IF (and it's a big if) BT decide to go digital from central exchange to CPE, but I highly doubt they'll ever do that due to the ridiculously high cost of bringing the local loop up to a quality sufficient for decent IP services. A lot of phone lines in the UK don't even manage to deliver their 4KHz of voice spectrum that well, DSL is even worse and with the average speed of broadband in the UK currently just 3.5Mbps when the scope is there for up-to-8Mb already, it doesn't bode well.

BT will never go to digital. Since being set aside from government they're not willing to pay billions of pounds to upgrade a whole phone network & now with LLU coming through & aimed to be out there for 21CN it'll be time for other companies to invest in the network.

christopher wrote: »

There's going to be swathes of customers bombarding BT with fault reports which BT are just going to ignore, once 21CN is rolled out UK-wide, because there's so many latent faults which would otherwise go unnoticed upstream in the core copper network. You might have a brand new tie pair from your street cab to your house, but if there's a line fault upstream which doesn't affect voice, only data, you're screwed pretty much unless your ISP can get OpenReach to do something about it. I've had enough experience with that whole process in the past 12 months to know that the network as it stands today just can't withstand that many customers trying to get faults resolved at the same time.

Well i work in faults, again i'd love to know where BT ignore faults & where the blockages come through about getting faults resolved at the same time?

So if your ISP doesnt approach OR then thats there issue and people should look at going with reputable ISP's & not one which offers the cheapest possible rate of service (whilst undercutting on customer service)

The 21CN isnt all about network upgrade, the support systems will be better tuned for sorting out problems & from a faults perspective, working on an IP system means we can find the problem a lot easier

christopher wrote: »

Retrofits of newer, more demanding technology onto old core infrastructures hardly ever work, nor do they last for long before the honeymoon period is over. Invariably it'll cost Openwoe more in the long run, which will raise wholesale costs and will most possibly negate any planned savings from the 21CN endeavour. See why I'm cynical about the whole thing now?

I can see what you think, but a lot of what you're saying is hear say, some of the information i have disagree's completely with what you have (unfortunately internal information only). Majority of what your saying is 'Oh well this is what they have on paper, BUT they couldnt do it in the past so this is why its never going to work'

christopher wrote: »

With the 21CN roadmap as it currently stands, there's going to be no change in the local loop or CPE. There will hopefully be the move to FTTC, with the DSLAMs moving into cabs on individual streets, but that'll be a LONG time coming. For the foreseeable future, it's still going to be an analogue phone line to the home, which is such a waste really.

Like i said, no one but BT is going to invest in the network. ISPs will piggy back off BT because its more cost effective for them. Theres only a few who would consider looking at investing in the network but thats only years down the line. As for the 21CN roadmap, all there ever was going to be was exchange upgrades, pulling up every road in the country to facilitate a few extra MB's isnt practical nor worth the effort. However for those that dont use broadband the voice side is going to be the biggest thing people will notice difference on in terms of quality. From what ive read internally about the broadband these people on 'long lines' will see an increase in speed.