Cowboy builder sawed through joist!

MisterBaxter

ceredigion wrote: »

What tosh
Although it is not good and need sorting. the carpenter will have a greater possibility of a fatal accident driving to the job, yet we all do that every day.

Drowning, perhaps!

I would attempt to bolt timbers either side of the existing joist across the gap. There should be enough space at either the top or bottom of the joist to get a fixing and then notch out for the waste pipe that the original joist was cut around assuming it's only a standard bath waste and not a 6" soil pipe. Timbers fixed across from the good joist either side similar to 'trimmers' would provide some additional support and if the floor void isn't too deep then a small brick pier under each cut end would provide support. How easy this all is will depend very much on how much space there is in the floor void. A shallow floor void means taking everything out of the bathroom; a decent floor void could mean that the work can be done from below; it's not pleasant but is doable.

A longer term problem I could foresee is that when the bath is filled/emptied there will be some movement , this could be worse than normal as some of the strength has gone from the floor and could lead to seals breaking and leaking.

maimee_magic

Thanks for all your replies. I will post a picture when I'm back at the bungalow in a couple of weeks. The bathroom is on the ground floor and the void isn't big. The previous bath was a corner bath and the new one isn't so the plumbing did need moving but don't see how we can take responsibility for him doing what he's done. There must have been a better solution. The bath runs along the outside wall with the taps in the middle. Anyone any idea how much it'll be to get a joiner in to fix this?

casper_g

Furts wrote: »

The other unknown is can all this be put squarely at the cowboy builder? Is the bath an exact like for like replacement, or has the location, or waste position, been altered to the request of the customer and this is the end result?

I don't think that's fair. If a customer asks a tradesman to do a job and it turns out the only way to do this is to cut through a structural member, a competent tradesman will not respond by shrugging his shoulders and saying "Well, if that's what they want!" while getting his saw out!

Furts

casper_g wrote: »

I don't think that's fair. If a customer asks a tradesman to do a job and it turns out the only way to do this is to cut through a structural member, a competent tradesman will not respond by shrugging his shoulders and saying "Well, if that's want they want!" while getting his saw out!

I agree to a large extent. But if the customer has requested an impossible job, or asked a general builder/bodger to take on work beyond their competence levels this can occur. The tradesman should have been competent and said "hang on this is not possible". Then if the bath and taps are already purchased would the customer have accepted the situation? After all they had the dream of a new bathroom in their mind.

Basically this was a job requiring an element of design, plus a structural check on joist directions and floor construction, and a check on plumbing. Clearly none of this was competently done.

The customer should have requested aspects of this and accept a degree of responsibility for this. All that had to be put in writing was "Is this job feasible? What are the likely problems? How might we overcome them? What needs checking before work is commenced?"

Then the onus was on the customer to engage a competent tradesman to do the work. Clearly this too did not occur.

Then the customer should be overseeing what work is being undertaken. OP recognises a sawn through joist and recognises that this will be problematic. Hence Op has an understanding of what is being undertaken.

Time and again I say that customers owe a duty o care to themselves. I also say that they should undertake due diligence. Numerous customers do not do this and then profess total innocence when problems occur.

I had contractors working on my home this week. I was checking their work every 30 minutes through the first morning. Indeed at many times I was offering suggestions on how they could resolve issues. Had I not been proactive the end result would not have been to the standard that was achieved - this is not a rocket science mindset!

brightontraveller

Can’t say its usual practice removing whole 1 ft section of a joist to fit a bath waste? What sizes is the bath waste????

As to if it would come crashing down really only a structural engineer etc would give a definite answer personally very much doubt it,

Thankfully though Multitude of ways to repair it steel composite timber etc across the gap, ditto supporting etc from below. Some methods

http://www.expamet.co.uk/product/builders-metalwork/structural-fixings/splice-plates/

Some pretty little movies showing same sort of gap as yours Yankee but gives you a visual idea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXtZnOxnZ8c


Not really sure if they’ve gone down or through it ? This method may work if its down ?
Using existing joist as support
http://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/heading-off-the-joist-jpg.18555/

If your unsure of loading etc always consult a structural engineer etc for calculations , Really any competent builder dependent on method used would be able to rectify your problem within a morning /day .... Maybe combination of steel / timber etc across gap and supporting with other joists would allow enough free space for pipe work not to be removed,,,

maimee_magic

Furts, I would like to point out that I didn't spot the cut joist it was another tradesman I got in to price up another job so I asked him to look at the still leaking bath. So you are quite wrong in suggesting that I had an understanding of what was happening. Also what nonsense to say that if he'd told me of the problem I would have wanted him to carry on just because I'd already bought the bath! What a ridiculous statement to make. However, I do agree that I didn't do my due diligence and took him at is word. He showed me his LinkedIn profile showing these building sites he oversees with references from large company directors. A massive lesson learnt by me. Thank you to all the other posters who have given me useful information on how to rectify this problem. Much appreciated.

Dannytyler

can't see how anyone can give advice without even seeing the pictures! he may have just cut through a noggin!...... even if he has cut through a joint a very simple fix at the worst being a bungalow with a void space

Furts

maimee_magic wrote: »

Furts, I would like to point out that I didn't spot the cut joist it was another tradesman I got in to price up another job so I asked him to look at the still leaking bath. So you are quite wrong in suggesting that I had an understanding of what was happening. Also what nonsense to say that if he'd told me of the problem I would have wanted him to carry on just because I'd already bought the bath! What a ridiculous statement to make. However, I do agree that I didn't do my due diligence and took him at is word. He showed me his LinkedIn profile showing these building sites he oversees with references from large company directors. A massive lesson learnt by me. Thank you to all the other posters who have given me useful information on how to rectify this problem. Much appreciated.

Fair comment, but you are also saying that you did not check up on the work of the tradesman whilst he was doing the work, nor when the work was completed. Due diligence, or common sense, after any plumbing job is completed is to ask "have you checked it for leaks?" Or "can you empty the bath/basin/shower and I will put my hand around the underside of the waste".

No genuine tradesman will be offended by this request. If they are offended then alarm bells should ring. But at this stage you are still holding the purse strings!

As for the LinkedIn, this is a site used for professionals so it appears that your man was some kind of site foreman/manager/supervisor. Plus your comment about "overseeing" and name dropping tends to confirm this. LinkedIn is not known as the the first point of call for checking out plumbers, so again alarm bells should have started ringing.

You appear to have taken my post personally. This is not the case. I could have given you gushing sympathy and support but this will achieve nothing. The unfortunate truth is that you have been conned, and you have set yourself up to be a victim. Only by people telling the uncomfortable truth might other people learn from your misfortune.