Job evaluation and promotion

JusttheoneQuestion

Excuse the long post.

I work in the government sector in the UK and I've been here since August 2014. In that time I've made what I believe are extremely valuable contributions to several major projects, worked much more than my contracted hours and I've gotten along very well with all of my direct colleagues, and colleagues across many other departments.

At the moment, my current position is a trainee and, for the reasons mentioned above, I very honestly feel I should no longer be trainee and, secondly, that I do not deserve to earn roughly £5,000 less than what the next member of staff in my section earns. From April 2016, I will earn about £1,300 more than I currently am but I do not know what the other staff in the team will be earning (or indeed whether they will be taking a pay cut). This pay rise will be finalised in November.

I feel that my proposed pay rise may have potential implications to my ability to be promoted. The reason I think this - and of course, please correct me if I am wrong in thinking this, I'm only 24 so I don't have much experience in work and government department culture or in fact any white-collar work as I was a waiter before I got this job - is because management may feel, for example, "Well, she's getting a pay rise already and now she wants a promotion? That's being greedy. Who does she think she is?" That's a difficulty and I am inexperienced in handling this sort of situation.

My actual manager has been on maternity leave since January and therefore has not seen the work I have done since then. I would feel much more comfortable talking to her about this than my managers (there are two). That is not to say they aren't as good, they are very good, it's simply because I worked much more closely with my actual manager than I did with my current managers. They have mentioned in the past that "We need to think about your role after your finish your trainee position" as you would expect but I don't know if they are just saying that to make me feel better or if they are waiting for me to start a discussion on my own initiative.
Should I talk about this to my current managers now?

Should I wait until my actual manager is back in January (even though she know little of what I have done this year) so that I have a new role a few months after she is back, which would also coincide with the April 2016 new pay. Should I not say anything?

I feel like if I discuss my future now, that £1,300 extra earmarked for me could go towards someone else, or a small group of people, or even a corporate project for the community or some other task. But then again I don't want to leave a made impression as it is not timely to talk about these things when other people are being downgraded in terms of their salary.

Many thanks for reading.

TL;DR expecting a pay rise in April 2016 but also feel like I should be promoted before then. Not sure how to bring this up with management, and when, if at all, to do so.

sangie595

You appear to be under the impression that you deserve more than you are getting from your employer of only one year. You do not get to decide that you shouldn't be a trainee, or should get £5,000 more pay - and if you go into any discussions with your employer displaying that attitude, then you may find that you are exiting your employment rather than getting a pay rise. You currently have no employment protection and dismissal would be very easy.

If you must discuss this, then the best way to approach it would be based on a discussion about how your traineeship is going and what you need to do to complete the training; and then what future you may have in the service or elsewhere. It is not unusual for government departments to maintain trainee positions as just that - in other words, there is no guarantee that there will be another job for you when the training is completed, and you could lose your employment. Simply because you are a trainee, or even because you complete that training, does not mean that there is an end to the training which results in you getting a promotion or paid more. It is common for progression to be only through applying for other jobs with the employer (or elsewhere). And in this climate, those jobs may be few and far between.

JusttheoneQuestion

If you were doing work above your pay grade and work that isn't part of your job description anywhere, then you do not think that individual should be entitled to a pay rise sooner or later? The length of time you have been at a job seems irrelevant; it is the quality of work you produce, not how long you've been doing something which this should be based on. I do not think a person should be entitled to a promotion if she has been doing something for x years, she should be entitled to a promotion because she has earned it through hard work.

I was simply asking what I should do.

London50

Keep quiet, you can be let go without any reason with the time you have been there. If you are not happy with the situation pack the job in and try and find one the will pay you what you think you should be getting but in todays climate good luck with that road.

Yorkie1

JusttheoneQuestion wrote: »

If you were doing work above your pay grade and work that isn't part of your job description anywhere, then you do not think that individual should be entitled to a pay rise sooner or later? The length of time you have been at a job seems irrelevant; it is the quality of work you produce, not how long you've been doing something which this should be based on. I do not think a person should be entitled to a promotion if she has been doing something for x years, she should be entitled to a promotion because she has earned it through hard work.

I was simply asking what I should do.

You have been given good advice, particularly by sangie in the second paragraph.

In the government sector, pay rises or bonuses don't just get given out. There are rules about what pay you can receive, and when. Given that the public sector pay bill has been limited to 1% for the last couple of years and the next few years, options are very limited.

In the near future, many government departments will be moving to a form of performance-related pay, so when the pay review is done, level and quality of work will be relevant. This may or may not apply to your trainee position, but will be likely to apply to any permanent position you may obtain thereafter.

You also can't just be promoted - there has to be a business case and vacancy for you to be promoted into, and probably an open and fair selection process - unless you were told that you would be through-graded to a more senior grade on successful completion of your trainee post.

If you are in a trainee grade then I expect it had an end date? Your present work will enable you to provide ample evidence for a) retention (if this was planned / an option when you were recruited, as opposed to a definite fixed term post), and b) promotion at that time.

asajj

JusttheoneQuestion wrote: »

If you were doing work above your pay grade and work that isn't part of your job description anywhere, then you do not think that individual should be entitled to a pay rise sooner or later? The length of time you have been at a job seems irrelevant; it is the quality of work you produce, not how long you've been doing something which this should be based on. I do not think a person should be entitled to a promotion if she has been doing something for x years, she should be entitled to a promotion because she has earned it through hard work.

I was simply asking what I should do.

Well it would be great indeed if everyone has been recognised for the quality of their work and hard work but in reality, this isn't often the case. As said there are limits and rules around promotions and salaries for the public sector too.

Promotions aren't given to those who work hard out of nothing. Firstly, there should be a position for you to be considered.

You mention you earn £5,000 less than the next member of staff but if you are a trainee and that person let's say been working there for years, what do you think they'd feel if you were earning the same? Others salary, though often can be frustrating , is not your concern and could prove very little for your case.
In addition, you are not supposed to know what others earn. It is a sackable offence where I work for instance.

You were given good advice above but it might not be what you want to hear though.

lovehackney

I work for a large corporate(private sector) so bear that in my mind for my response - I am not familiar with the culture of asking for pay rises / promotions in the public sector.
However, I have just successfully negotiateda payrise and promotion for myself through:

1. At my half year appraisal I outlined everything I had done since starting my role (started role 8 months ago, been with company 2.5years), paying particular attention to work above my pay grade, work that had raised profile of my department internally, and work with positive £ results

2. Enquired about further training to specifically address development areas identified by myself and my line manager, including those focused on leadership

3. Asked for a payrise based on industry norms (do not compare yourself to others in your team - not relevant and you shouldn't know their salary) with a cheeky bit on top to reflect enhanced responsibility, expecting to be negotiated down a bit

4. Clearly outlined my long term plans, desire to stay in the business etc

After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, agreed interim pay rise now, acceptance onto promotion training scheme and further pay rise upon successful completion of the scheme.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't think it's cheeky asking for a pay rise and promotion at same time, but be flexible on timing (but get anything agreed in writing), demonstrate a willingness to train / develop yourself further to the required level, present a clear business case (what you've achieved above expectations, why your role is now worth £x) and show a long term commitment to the team / department etc.

Yes they might say no but if they do, ask what you need to do to reach the next level etc and provide creative solutions, training, seconding to new roles etc.

TELLIT01

There are very tight constraints on public sector pay so even if you do move from trainee to the next grade it won't necessarily mean you get a £5k pay rise. You would be much more likely to go onto the bottom of the grade pay scale.
I worked in the public sector and even after years on the same grade as colleagues I never caught up with them because of restrictions on pay rises.
Hopefully you don't display at work the sense of entitlement which comes across from your posts here.

Johno100

asajj wrote: »

In addition, you are not supposed to know what others earn. It is a sackable offence where I work for instance.

You clearly don't work in the public sector where there is defined grading and salary scales are published annually. Generally if you know when someone was promoted to a grade then you know roughly what they are earning.

lincroft1710

In the public sector you don't make waves. If your managers think you deserve a raise or promotion, then when either can be effected it will happen.

asajj

Johno100 wrote: »

You clearly don't work in the public sector where there is defined grading and salary scales are published annually. Generally if you know when someone was promoted to a grade then you know roughly what they are earning.

Well this is the same as private sector. There are ranges though so you don't know how much X person earns to the cents and you are not supposed to talk about it either.