Not Inputting reg number - appeal

Quentin

The_Deep wrote: »

.... the OPs case for mitigation is overwhelming......

Now this is nonsense.


You don't win a cc claim by simply presenting a defence of mitigation!


The OP shouldn't hope this will now die once he submits a defence (PE have already spent ££s both prior to and when issuing their claim, and if it were the case they will simply back down on receiving any defence then life would be very easy as far as a PE ticket was concerned).


The OP should present a defence as advised in the to do lists above and #5 in the newbies FAQ, and not simply state its a con!

The_Deep

Now this is nonsense.


Whatever happened to reasoned debate.


You don't win a cc claim by simply presenting a defence of mitigation!

Are you absolutely sure about that? I seem to recall a recent case where a judge allowed a case where an O.A.P.s car broke down. I am sure that there are plenty of others.

dstill

After everyone's helpful advice on this forum I've spent the best part of the weekend doing research and attempting to put together a defence. This is totally out of my comfort zone and I've struggled with it every bit of the way ( but i feel i must defence this genuine case based on a minor error on my part.

UPDATE
I have now got a copy of the signing in record which proves i was working for the company that day. This is the only piece of evidence i can produce. I haven't yet found a case similar to mine so the following is, based on my poor understanding of the legal system, the only points i feel in can raise in my defence.

1. The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
2. The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
3. It was a minor human error on my part and i can prove i was working for the company that has a right to park in this area, albeit i didn't strictly follow the rules to support this right.
4. In my opinion at no point did i set out to defraud Parking Eye/Land Owner based on Point 3 above.

I know my defence isn't in legal jargon but rather than include things in my appeal that may be ambiguous/irrelevant i thought i would be better off saying it from a laymans point of view.

Should i also request a stay until the Beavis case has been heard by the Supreme Court or is this irrelevant in my case?

Guys_Dad

I think that points 1 & 2 might get the case stayed but if the judge does not choose this route, he may hide behind the current state of the Beavis case and chicken out giving the verdict to PE..

You need to put in a defence stating (with relevant evidence) exactly the deal that your company has with Parking Eye for free parking.

Demand that Parking Eye examine and confirm whether or not you parked previously on other days complying with the enter registration rules and get them to confirm that they did not charge you on these days. You should provide a couple of dates and approximate times of entry/departure .

Also, think about it - how do parking eye know who is on the white list? They must have a way of checking reg entered with who is able to park free.

If so, then as their ANPR has detected your vehicle, then they can check that against their white list. The fact that they have the photos showing your car reg must be good enough to confirm you are bona fide.

The point is that they have absolute proof that you are a company employee and that what they are chasing is you not dotting the i's and crossing the t's and that they have lost absolutely nothing. You have got to make much more of all of this.

Come on - you need to put much more effort into your defence for court or you will lose.

dstill

Hi Guys Dad, thanks for the information and advice, just a couple of queries if i may.

I'm not sure if asking them to check to see if I've made the same mistake before will help my case, i'm all for it if it will though.

I don't think there is a 'white list' as such. The machine that the registration numbers are entered into is inside he building so in essence the only people who can use the machine are those who are either bona fide employees or visitors to the business. I'm guessing that simply by the fact a registration number is entered into the machine means Parking Eye consider the vehicle is bona fide.

bazster

Have you asked the company you were working at to provide you with a letter confirming that you were working for them and had their permission to park there?

This should be central to your defence. If you had permission to park from a party with sufficient interest in the land to give that permission then you didn't need ParkingEye's permission and ParkingEye couldn't give such permission. This means that you can't have had any contract with ParkingEye.

Drop any stuff along the lines of "albeit i didn't strictly follow the rules". It sounds spineless and implies that you accept ParkingEye had the right to impose its arbitrary rules (i.e. that they had the right to offer you a contract). That PE had any such right is the first thing you want to deny.

dstill

Hi Bazster,

Unfortunately as i don't work there anymore the only thing they will provide is a copy of the signing in sheet which they have already.

Guys_Dad

dstill wrote: »

Hi Guys Dad, thanks for the information and advice, just a couple of queries if i may.

I'm not sure if asking them to check to see if I've made the same mistake before will help my case, i'm all for it if it will though.

I don't think there is a 'white list' as such. The machine that the registration numbers are entered into is inside he building so in essence the only people who can use the machine are those who are either bona fide employees or visitors to the business. I'm guessing that simply by the fact a registration number is entered into the machine means Parking Eye consider the vehicle is bona fide.

There has to be some sort of tie up between the machine and PES recording system. That is what you need to explore and exploit. Showing or getting them to check a couple of occasions will be good evidence for a court that you were entitled to free parking. Of course your employers can help your case with the print out showing you were there that day as well.

The basis in court would be all the technical points others have suggested but the main one is that you are entitled to park for free and a momentary lapse of memory should not incur such a draconian charge.

A couple of questions. The signs - is there specific wording for free employee parking. Could be very important. And is this a shared car park with other companies?

Ralph-y

depending how relations are with your past employer .....

a conversation along the lines of ........

you may be called to court to prove you worked for them ....

might just be enough to prompt a letter being written to prove such

Ralph:cool:

dstill

Well, an update.

I submitted the signing in sheet as my evidence for being allowed to park in the said car park. However, stupidly i sent in the signing in sheet for the date the fine was issued and not the date of the alleged offence.

Parking Eye state in their court documents (that they have sent me) that this looks like an error on my part, which it is, and if i wish to amend my defence i should submit a N244 Form and pay the form submission fees. Is this correct, is it worth completing this form as i can get hold of the signing in sheet for the correct day. Also, how much are the submission fees?