multivitamins and minerals

ejsmith

I've just seen a new Dr and been advised that I sshould be taking a compound containing multivitamins and mmulti mineralssuch as Sanatogen Gold or Forceval. Sure I've aged another decade just be looking at the cost of them! So I thought there should be generic alternatives but it turns out to be a minefield. There doesn't appear to be an agreement on how much we need, whether 200% of the RDA is good or not, whether tablets or capsules are best, whether ginseng and its ilk are gimmicks....

There is no point in saving money if what I buy doesn't do the job but branded goods aren't always the best. Has anyone done the hard work and sat down and compared them? The only flexibility in my limited budget is on groceries so it would be rather ironic if buying supplements meant I couldn't afford fruit and veg!

tomtontom

Have you looked at supermarket own brand? I take a Tesco multi vitamin tailored for women, I expect they do one that would suit your circumstances. They are £4.00 for 30, and almost always on 3 for 2.

rogerblack

In short - the premium brands with pictures of happy smiling older people on are not meaningfully better in most cases.
Multivitamins and minerals are - even for the tesco own brand ones - mainly packaging, and the cost of ingredients is almost nothing

There is no clear evidence for most vitamins that in other than extreme cases, supplementation helps at all.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=meta+vitamin++supplement

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26174589 - as a random example - finding that analysing calcium supplementation for older women may in general not be positive, due to the small effect on bone density and the side-effects.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25398301 - an analysis of vitamin E supplement randomised trials shows that it does not help you live longer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24690623 - vitamin D may have a small affect on living longer.


The fundamental problem is that most of these analysis of trials are limited, but there is no better way to get data that we know.

Strong claims on vitamin or mineral packets are almost never backed up in the general population.

Is it a bad idea to take a multivitamin - especially if your diet is poor - probably not.
Does it really matter which multivitamin - it is extremely questionable.

If you are at high risk of certain diseases, or have certain conditions, it is a good idea to see if there are recomeneded dietary aids for them.
Look on NHS websites and similar.
'Healthy aging' 'wellness' and similar sites are in general providing extremely questionable information driven by ad-revenue.
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7346 - an interesting podcast on the accuracy of television medical advice shows.
(spoiler: flip a coin)

tomtontom

I'm sure the GP is better equipped to advise the OP on their health requirements than some random on the internet!

rogerblack

tomtontom wrote: »

I'm sure the GP is better equipped to advise the OP on their health requirements than some random on the internet!

In specific cases - yes.

It's important to understand how GPs education works.
They go to school, and are taught 'medicine' - and will spend a very limited amount of time on any particular topic.

They then read medical journals to follow the outcomes of clinical trials and reviews of various treatments.
There may at times be NHS directives on treatment or training on specific aspects of medicine.

The gold standard in developing treatment is large, randomised controlled trials analysing the results of what happens when you give random people specific medicines or supplementation.

These are published, and are often available to the public, or at least their abstracts.

If your doctors advice is not based on clinical evidence from trials, or understanding of the body, this is extraordinarily vulnerable to bias, and is often based on gut feelings.

If the doctor is not keeping up on your particular condition, and has missed that there has recently been a large trial published, you may have better information than they do. Their gut feeling does not beat a trial where 10000 people were given, and 10000 people not given a drug.

One _MAJOR_ caveat.
I am not here referring to trials that get published in the Daily Mail or any other major publication, it is almost impossible to determine if a study is meaningful from stuff published in the mainstream media.

You absolutely need to understand how to read studies from primary sources - BMJ, the Lancet, pubmed - and understand what effect sizes are, and understand how many patients the trial was over.
For small effects, trials with fewer than a thousand patients are basically useless.
Your doctor is almost certain to never see a thousand patients with many conditions, so has no way to calibrate their 'gut' feeling even this well.


As to the OPs original question - I would ask the doctor if they have any specific reason to recommend expensive versus cheap multivitamins.

Doctors are as vulnerable as anyone else to marketing, and the 'it's expensive so it must be better' effect.

matrix11001

ejsmith wrote: »

I've just seen a new Dr and been advised that I sshould be taking a compound containing multivitamins and mmulti mineralssuch as Sanatogen Gold or Forceval. Sure I've aged another decade just be looking at the cost of them! So I thought there should be generic alternatives but it turns out to be a minefield. There doesn't appear to be an agreement on how much we need, whether 200% of the RDA is good or not, whether tablets or capsules are best, whether ginseng and its ilk are gimmicks....

There is no point in saving money if what I buy doesn't do the job but branded goods aren't always the best. Has anyone done the hard work and sat down and compared them? The only flexibility in my limited budget is on groceries so it would be rather ironic if buying supplements meant I couldn't afford fruit and veg!

I get the Healthspan Gold vitamins - that pretty much contains most of what you could possibly what and it costs £9 for 6 months worth - not come across a better value supplement yet.

Dippypud

matrix11001 wrote: »

I get the Healthspan Gold vitamins - that pretty much contains most of what you could possibly what and it costs £9 for 6 months worth - not come across a better value supplement yet.

I've seen them at £9.95 for 120 tabs, at one-a-day = 4 months


Where did you see them at that for 6mths ?

VeGGie-STyLe

I used to have Forceval on prescription. Although for some reason they weren't able to supply it anymore, and was offered an alternative.

If your doctor has recommended taking multivitamins, maybe you could ask him/her if they are able to prescribe them for you? It would work out cheaper if they can prescribe them in bulk.

As for their effectiveness...... I'm not sure. It didn't do me any harm, other than the horrendous nausea if I didn't take them with food.


ETA: At the same time, I was also being prescribed Folic Acid, Thiamine, Iron, Vitamin D, Calcium, and Maxepa (fish oil), ON TOP of the multivitamin. So they seem to be able to tailor supplements to your own personal needs.

matrix11001

I would suggest this: http://www.healthspan.co.uk/products/multivitality-gold

Vitamins:
Vitamin A 800mcg (100)
Vitamin B1 1.1mg (100)
Vitamin B2 1.4mg (100)
Vitamin B3 16mg (100)
Vitamin B5 6mg (100)
Vitamin B6 1.4mg (100)
Vitamin B12 2.5mcg (100)
Vitamin C 80mg (100)
Vitamin D3 5mcg (100)
Natural Source Vitamin E 12mg (100)
Vitamin K 37.5mcg (50)
Biotin 50mcg (100)
Folic Acid 200mcg (100)

Minerals:
Boron 150mcg
Calcium 200mg (25)
Chloride 36mg
Chromium 20mcg (50)
Copper 1mg (100)
Iodine 150mcg (100)
Iron 14mg (100)
Magnesium 75mg (20)
Manganese 2mg (100)
Molybdenum 25mcg
Phosphorous 40mg
Potassium 40mg
Selenium 55mcg (100)
Zinc 10mg (100)

One of the best vitamins I've come across and have been taking for years and no intention to change as it's so good! :T

These are £8.95 for 6 months worth - £7.95 if you get it on repeat order. :money:

colin13

they sayy supermarkets multi vits are cheaper and just as effective as branded ones

matrix11001

colin13 wrote: »

they sayy supermarkets multi vits are cheaper and just as effective as branded ones

I agree in some cases, but it depends on how good their ingredients are and how absorb able they are. Some cheaper brands aren't easy to absorb into the body, so not worth what you pay for them. Hence I go with Healthspan as £8.95 works out pretty cheap for a good quality product for 6 months. I wouldn't trust shops own vitamins.