Windows and Lintels - Ventrolla

John_Lilburne

Clairebare1 wrote: »

Hi John, can I just ask if you have come across or heard of this situation happening to anyone else before?

Only a couple of times before and both times it was Upvc windows that had been fitted.Thing is with a timber window you can plane a bit off to make it fit but with plastic you can't...The guy who surveyed your job got it wrong because he doesn't know how a Victorian property would have been built, he only needed to take off the inside head linings, or removed the architrave ,chip a bit of plaster off and he would have seen the lintel and measured from the underside of it but he probably measured it from the outside.

This is one of the problems with FENSA self certification ,you have cowboys signing off their own work as being carried correctly and complying with regs. When we go through the "Building notice" route via the local authority they building inspector comes out and checks the work including lintels etc.Far too many conflicts of interest with the FENSA Scheme.

Clairebare1

Do you know how those situations were resolved?

John_Lilburne

Clairebare1 wrote: »

Do you know how those situations were resolved?

One of the companies paid for all the remedial work to be done by a 3rd party. The other company denied they had taken to lintels out .They had already taken all the waste away so there was no proof....

I must say you have had some good advice on here especially Furts ,Ruski and Doozergirl...

Provided any movement to the brickwork is minimal then the remedial work is not a huge job. Take out the windows, Fit some tempory supports (Acro props and needles) new concrete lintels and re making and fitting of the windows and you should be ok...



I've fitted windows in curved Oast Houses in Kent/Sussex where there's almost never a lintel supporting the brickwork and that really is squeeky bum time...

Clairebare1

The structural engineers have suggested retaining the windows that are there now and a steel angle lintel. Do you not think they should do this and be putting concrete lintel and making new windows?

John_Lilburne

Clairebare1 wrote: »

The structural engineers have suggested retaining the windows that are there now and a steel angle lintel. Do you not think they should do this and be putting concrete lintel and making new windows?

Perosnally I would want it put back as it was before they hacked it about, it was good enough for over 100yrs and the lintels were not rotten or infested with woodworm..Having said that ,I'm not a structural engineer.The engineer is trying to come up with a solution to get over their bodge up. I do hope they are being reported to FENSA and name and shamed too.

Early start tomorrow so I'm off to bed......byeeee and don't worry, it will get sorted.

Furts

Clairebare1 wrote: »

Hi all

We are having a full structural report done by the structural engineer company tomorrow.
One of the managers of the window company will be coming here while the structural engineer company are here too, to see what needs to be done to rectify all this.
The window company have asked for the invoice for the structural engineer company to be sent to them.

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When I read this I assumed the obvious. That is, the report was commissioned by the home owner and the invoice was to be forwarded to the window company. With this in mind I gently suggested that the window manager should not be present when the the windows were being evaluated.

It now appears that the structural engineer was engaged by the window company. I appreciate the comments made by Doozergirl regarding integrity, but this situation is unwise. I would never recommend this course of action, and neither would any other savvy consumers. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Ruski

Clairebare1 wrote: »

The structural engineers have suggested retaining the windows that are there now and a steel angle lintel. Do you not think they should do this and be putting concrete lintel and making new windows?

Well at least you have an offer on the table - albeit one which you're not happy with - and tbh neither would I be.

The SE will have done their calcs, as as Doozer says their livelihood is on the line if they get it wrong.

I too would prefer to see concrete lintels installed and new windows fitted - if it's a large national company then making a few new windows is a spit in the sea to them so the 'cost' of these isn't a massive issue for them.

Customer satisfaction should be of concern to them, but sadly not having not taken your requests into account. I can't see them 'paying off' the SE either.

I would suggest a few things.

Ask the SE to provide a set of calcs showing the use of concrete lintels used: if this is not an option (ie they will not do it)

Instruct your own SE to do calcs based on YOUR requirements.

Forward these onto the company and say this is the least you will settle for.

If you get nowhere with this pursue money back and compensation and get things fixed yourself - independent builder and local window manufacturer.

The longer this drags on the less chance you have of getting a satisfactory resolution - so go at them like a pitbull (with apologies to any pitbull owners out there for the association) - recording everything and contacting the parties daily for an answer.

Good luck - I have a feeling you should win this one - if not, MSE, Watchdog, Consumer rights programmes are all going to be in your 'armouries' of backing up the incompetencies of this company.

Keep us posted

Russ

Clairebare1

To answer Doozergirls point earlier on "movement would be above the lintels".

The movement is definitely above where the lintels were.

We have had 16 lintels removed from our house with the largest being nearly 2.5 metres on the ground floor and the next largest was in the room directly above this and was about 1.7 metres. In this 1.7m window room there are now cracks going down from the bottom of the window (because the 2.5m lintel was remove in the room underneath) and also up from the top of the window (because the lintel was removed and there is another floor above that contains 2 large double bedrooms and a bathroom.

11 lintels were removed from the front, 1 removed from each of the sides and 3 removed from the rear. Out of this amount 10 were on the ground floor - to all sides of the house, 6 were on the first floor - front and back only. It seems the higher we go up in the house the worse the cracks are - even though no windows were replaced on the second floor by the company it now looks like a spiders web - and they were definitely not there a month ago! There is also a cellar to this house, making it 4 storeys.

This is a big house where we are now lacking a lot of support on every side - do you honestly think this would not cause any cracks!?!

stone7

stone7 wrote: »

I may have missed something here, but how can you tell the lintels don't have sufficient bearing?

Doozergirl wrote: »

Because I can see where they were and that wouldn't ever be considered a suitable bearing these days. The minimum now is 150mm. The OPs look barely 40mm.

There is nothing on the four photos I've seen that indicate how much bearing the timber lintels have/had.

Doozergirl

stone7 wrote: »

There is nothing on the four photos I've seen that indicate how much bearing the timber lintels have/had.

You're right. I don't know what I thought I saw yesterday, only looked briefly and clearly wasn't concentrating.