Deceased Person: How to Calculate Pension Credit Overpayment?

MX5Lady01

Can anyone advise me a rough simple calculation to work out how much I might have to pay back from the Estate of my late mother, as she may have been overpaid on her Pension Credit benefit?

A bit of background: My mother died in November 2014. She was given Pension Credit to top-up her pension since 2003. At her assessment, I understand she had shown one Nationwide savings account with approx. £300 in. As Executor, I have since discovered that she had another very old Abbey savings book with £2,900 in. Whether my mother knew she still had this is debateable.

Since receiving the Grant of Probate, the DWP Estates Recovery have sent the “standard letter”, advising that there may have been an overpayment. I completed the form as accurately as possible, including this old Abbey savings book amount. Of course, they have now come back saying that the details they have of my mother's savings don't match, so they want all the bank statements, and savings accounts statements going back to 2003. However, the banks are providing statements only back to 2009.

Due to immobility etc., In the last 3 years of her life she had more than the ‘savings limit’ in her Lloyds current account, as the old age pension, pension credit, attendance allowance (non-means tested) had just built up with her not spending much.

As a rough calculation, I have taken the highest Lloyds balance figure that appeared for each year from 2009, and added that to the total in the two savings accounts, to come to a total savings amount. Crude, but not sure how to work it out?

So for example in 2011, the most she had in her current account at one point in that year was £11,530 (the Pension Credit Savings Cap being £10,000). Therefore £1,530 over the threshold.

And subsequently, In 2012 the highest figure was £14,090
In 2013 £13, 184
In 2014 £13,453

I have read somewhere that for every £500 of savings you lose £1 of benefit.

So does that mean for 2011 being £1,530 over the limit that £2 per week should be repaid = £2 x 52 weeks = £104? Or is it far more complicated than I think?

I would appreciate any advice on how to calculate, so I might have a rough idea on what the "Estate" will owe the DWP?

Many thanks

Mojisola

MX5Lady01 wrote: »

Due to immobility etc., In the last 3 years of her life she had more than the ‘savings limit’ in her Lloyds current account, as the old age pension, pension credit, attendance allowance (non-means tested) had just built up with her not spending much.

If your mother had been given an Assessed Income Period, it wouldn't have mattered how much money she accumulated over the limit - it wouldn't affect her PC payments. Worth checking her paperwork.

cliffandsue

Mojisola wrote: »

If your mother had been given an Assessed Income Period, it wouldn't have mattered how much money she accumulated over the limit - it wouldn't affect her PC payments. Worth checking her paperwork.

Quite right. The DWP can only play that card if mum had over the figure when she applied for PC and that she didn't expect to receive any windfall within the next 12 months.

If the lower ceiling was breached AFTER when the DWP awarded GPC along with making an AIP, you can have millions in the bank - just as long as she could not foresee that happening when she claimed.

Shelldean

We've just been through this.
Just send what statements you can get. We was asked for statements for two specific dates. Feb 2004 and Feb 2009.
Also banks said something along the lines that they only hold records for six years, so 2004 was not provided. As we was requesting in Jan this year we managed to get the 2009. Sent them off and waited.

We waited a LONG time. But our case was more complicated than yours so hopefully you won't take as long.

Can't help on the calculations am afraid.

It seems that if a deceased person is on PC and probate is granted with a differing figure to the one they hold they query it.

cliffandsue

Shelldean wrote: »

It seems that if a deceased person is on PC and probate is granted with a differing figure to the one they hold they query it.

Which quite honestly is a 'fishing expedition' on the DWP's part.
If an AIP was set AND the DWP had evidence of ALL of her capital held at that time when the GPC award was made, it doesn't matter a fig what is shown on the Probate documents. She could have millions in the bank but the DWP could do nothing about it.

The important things to keep in mind are:
Did she disclose ALL of her capital and income when she claimed GPC?
Did she know that she would be coming into money within 12 months of making that claim?
Was an AIP set and for how long?

If the answers are YES, NO and 'for life' (because she was over 75), all you have to do is ask the DWP (Pension Service) if they have any evidence that contradicts what she disclosed when the claim was made. If they they haven't then there is bu***r all they can do about it.

Mojisola

cliffandsue wrote: »

If an AIP was set AND the DWP had evidence of ALL of her capital held at that time when the GPC award was made, it doesn't matter a fig what is shown on the Probate documents.

The DWP will have the information that the claimant gave them and signed to say the information was true.

It's only right that the DWP should ask for more evidence if the estate seems to have a lot more money in it than was originally claimed.

beecher2

We went through this with my mum's estate - we did owe the DWP money and sent them all the statements we had. We settled the estate and kept back enough money to pay them, and in the end they asked for less than we expected - never did understand how they calculated the amount.

Definitely focus on the amount your mum said she had in 2003 as she's very likely to have had a AIP for life - you'll find this on her Pension Credit documents I think.

Ours took a long time to sort out as it took ages for the DWP to get back to us on anything.

dodger1

MX5Lady01 wrote: »

I have read somewhere that for every £500 of savings you lose £1 of benefit.

So does that mean for 2011 being £1,530 over the limit that £2 per week should be repaid = £2 x 52 weeks = £104? Or is it far more complicated than I think?

I would appreciate any advice on how to calculate, so I might have a rough idea on what the "Estate" will owe the DWP?

Many thanks

Pretty sure that's correct but maybe a little interest on top.

beecher2

dodger1 wrote: »

Pretty sure that's correct but maybe a little interest on top.

The DWP didn't charge us interest and won't be looking at the 2011 figures if there was an AIP in place.

dodger1

beecher2 wrote: »

The DWP didn't charge us interest and won't be looking at the 2011 figures if there was an AIP in place.

Knew about the AIP but not the lack of interest, that's good.

cliffandsue

Mojisola wrote: »

The DWP will have the information that the claimant gave them and signed to say the information was true.

It's only right that the DWP should ask for more evidence if the estate seems to have a lot more money in it than was originally claimed.

If the DWP have grounds to suspect that what was disclosed when the claim was made was wrong, then yes you would be expected to provide evidence to prove that the level of capital was correct. I would be very surprised that they would as the bank statements would have been disclosed at the time. (obviously not disclosing a bank account would be a different kettle of fish).
How they can justify having those grounds on the basis that in 2014 (11 years after making the claim) she had more in the bank when she died than she disclosed existed in 2003beats me. Even if she did, it has nothing to do with the DWP as any additional capital acquired during an Assessed Income Period cannot be taken into account.

I would be asking the DWP on what grounds do they believe that the capital held in 2003 when the claim was made was understated.

Only recently I read about an old guy that only had a few pounds in his bank account when he made a claim, and six years later he won a large payout from the Lottery. When he died the DWP tried everything to question why the amount shown on Probate was in the millions. They made it extremely difficult for the executor and the beneficiaries.