Advice with I&E please

Richard_S

taib0 wrote: »

Hi Richard, thanks for your advice. I work 7 days a week 12 hour shifts to earn that amount of money ( and I'm still skint ) and I have had a bellyfull thats why I'm going BR I just can't keep up anymore.

Would the OR not think I am trying it on by having a negative I&E I am really worried they will frown on the fact that they can't nail me for an IPA because there isn't enough left each month. To me it is so obvious and probably the same for most of us on this forum I have more going out than what I have coming in thats why I'm in this damn mess.

Thanks guys,

Taib0

Hi taib0,

I would seriously think about scaling your hours down; if you carry on like that you're going to wear yourself out, and for whose benefit? It's not uncommon for people to stay in a lower paid job or reduce their hours to minimise their chances of having to pay an IPA.

As for a negative budget, the O.R may well disallow some of the expenses that you consider legitimate and there doesn't seem to be much consistency between them. By building more expenses into your budget, or minimising your income, you're protecting yourself from having items reduced or dismissed.

The O.R is trying to get as big a return for your estate as he/she can but to some extent the whole thing is a system of horsetrading and if you don't fight your corner, there's nobody else who will. Of course you've got to be reasonable but life is an expensive business and once you've been declared bankrupt there's no credit to fall back on; you need the money in cash.

Richard

Liberty9515

taib0 wrote: »

Hi guys, I have been advised on this forum to list this as a separate thread so more people can see it. I am currently filling in my bankruptcy forms ready for county court and I don't want to mess up the I&E as there is no going back once its submitted. I know we will end up having to pay a monthly IPA and I am worried it will be expensive. I would be sick to be made bankrupt and still have a horrible big monthly payment around my neck that seems pointless. I would appreciate any advice from anyone who's been through the same thing,

Thanks, Taib0


mortgage 995
mortgage protection 54
council tax 102
housekeeping/food 400
gas/electric 80
water 39
telephone/mobiles 60
clothing 80
life Insurance 24
Home Insurance 43
car tax x2 18.50
car insurance x2 217 ( 2 taxi's ) public liability insurance £2600 pa
fuel (diesel) x2 400
family dentist plan 35
opticians 10
haircuts 10
tv licence 10.95
holidays 70
Total £2648.45


Income

my earnings 1800
wife's wages 400
child allowance 120
child tax credits 410 this is due to change as my
16 yr old has just left school
and starts college in september

My 16yr old has also left school and is off to college and as far as I am aware my child tax credits are not going to change, so maybe its worth checking that out! You do have to let WTC know about the child continuing their education.

taib0

Thanks everyone, don't know what I would do without you all I am certainly glad I'm not going through this on my own,

Regards,

Taib0

Lizzibuff

DEBTMONKEY1A wrote: »

....I'm sure these can be 'tweaked' a bit... There are other things you can claim for, 'meals at work' is one (ie takeaways...sandwiches-this is seperate from your food allowence-I was advised on this by Simon Wiggins-google' ask the expert' on the debthelpuk web-site-you can post on there/ask questions to)...also 'miscelaneous personal expenses', repairs, etc...search this site for posts by debtmonkey 1 (not 1a-had to re-register as forgot password & system kept kicking me out)-bear in mind I'm a single guy! My OR did not even query my outgoings. As i said-Simon Wiggins on afore-mentioned site is an insolvency practiotioner. I would say this could be tweaked so your ougoings exceed your income (don't forget there are laways things people forget to budget for). Again-what about car repairs/mantenance??? Breakdown cover??? If you have not got this get it now.

As far as I understand it-you have to consistently have £90 a month or more for the OR to make an IPA. If yopur outgoings exceed your income there will be no IPA & very possible early dishcharge. Look in to it further & check out the other web-site. Make sure you put in the maximum you are allowed to!

Without meaning to upset or worry anyone - its just a query - if you did 'tweak' things and claim for additional things - wouldnt the OR pick this up as dont they also get your bank statements etc????

Richard_S

Lizzibuff wrote: »

Without meaning to upset or worry anyone - its just a query - if you did 'tweak' things and claim for additional things - wouldnt the OR pick this up as dont they also get your bank statements etc????

Hi Lizzi,

Running a household budget isn't a science; you can't get it exactly right; there's no formula that'll ensure it's accuracy. If you budget say £30 / month for house repairs you might not spend anything one year and you'll have £360 in the bank. The next year your gas boiler might breakdown or any one of a number of things; if you haven't got that mony in cash you've got no credit to rely on. It's not about "tweaking" a budget, it's about making realistic assumptions.

Almost without exception people underestimate the cost of keeping a vehicle on the road. We generated a reasonable cash cushion in the first six months of our bankruptcy then spent it all on a new engine, gear box and clutch.:eek: :eek:

Never forget your provisions, and every expense should be at the top end of what's reasonable; it's not being deceitful or cheating; it's surviving without credit.

Richard

Lizzibuff

Thanks Richard. That was another one of those niggly things that was worrying me about what to claim for and my statements not exactly matching my claims.

moyilla

Hi

Are you a Hackney driver or Private Hire? Just wondering as my other half is private hire and has to pay weekly subs to his company or he cannot work - these are £95 per week.

He also has to have a mobile phone - part of his contract.

Breakdown cover is a must also and not just the basic cover - the full works as he has to be able to get his customer to their destination.

Also don't forget you NI contributions and tax bill - make a monthly allowance for these as these are also compulsory.

Also what about your yearly fees for your badge/license to local authority/council.

Do you get a yearly MOT and then a taxi test/inspection also?

Don't forget car valeting - customers do be sick - and also car washes.

Definetly have a budget for tyre's, regular servicing, brakes, ball joints etc etc something always falls off or breaks on a taxi far more than a day to day run car - a minimum of £50 a week per car.

Also are your vehicle's worth allot of money? The OR would want to take anything over £1000 in value but you can appeal to them saying that you cannot afford to replace the vehicle's as they have to be a certain age and in very good condition to be able to pass a taxi test. You simply do not have the money spare to do all this.

If you don't work you don't earn more unpaid bills adding up, more stress etc.

How about 16 year old's pocket money and clothing allowance - starting college will be extra cost for stationery books, will he/she have to travel etc.

You can also have a monthly allowance for birthdays, Christmas and household emergencies - fridge/washing machine breaking down - you will have no credit card's to fall back on for anything.

And most importantly tell the OR on the forms that you have cut your hours right down therefore your earnings have dropped dramatically. I would dothis before you submit your forms as it would make it easier for you.

Remember your money is never guaranteed you only earn if someone gets in your taxi - put an average wage not actual as two weeks are never the same.

You can always increase your hours again when you feel up to it.

Sorry if this is a little long winded but I have been where you are now and it was only in January so I hope that helps a little!!

taib0

Hi Moyilla,
thank you for your post absolutely solid gold that I forgot about yearly badge etc (we are private hire) . Surely they wouldn't take my cars I wouldn't be able to work ?? would they ?

Regards,

Taib0

fermi

taib0 wrote: »

Surely they wouldn't take my cars I wouldn't be able to work ?? would they ?

Almost certainly not.:D

From:

http://bankruptcy.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=72

or

http://www.debtquestions.co.uk/debt_forum/viewtopic.php?t=14954

Bankrupt claiming vehicle as exempt property

It the bankrupt's responsibility to satisfy the official receiver that a vehicle is exempt property, i.e. that it is necessary for his/her use personally in his/her employment, business or vocation, or is necessary to meet the basic domestic needs of the bankrupt and his/her family.

In the case of a claim for exemption to meet domestic needs the official receiver must be satisfied that the motor vehicle is necessary to the extent that no practical alternative exists, to meet a genuine need and not merely a matter of convenience.

If the use of a vehicle does not meet the test for necessity the vehicle is vested in the bankruptcy estate and the official receiver as trustee should instead pursue with the bankrupt the option to make a reasonable offer for the purchase of the vehicle

The bankrupt's claim should be dealt with at the initial interview in either the narrative statement or in supplementary questions to the Preliminary Interview Questionnaire.
The bankrupt needs to be able to satisfy the official receiver that the vehicle is both necessary for his/her employment, business or vocation and is necessary personally to the bankrupt. This does not mean that the vehicle must be used exclusively by the bankrupt but it must be necessary to him/her not just to the other users.

Whether or not a vehicle is exempt property is in some cases a difficult question. In such circumstances, official receivers will need to use their discretion and consider each case according to its merits within the guidelines issued to official receivers.

In all cases official receivers should apply the guidance strictly and rigorously. It is for the bankrupt to convince the official receiver that any motor vehicle is necessary within the exemptions.

The value of the vehicle is not a determining factor.

Bankrupt claims he/she needs vehicle for work

When considering whether to exempt a motor vehicle the principal points that the Official Receiver has to consider are;

whether the vehicle is used by the bankrupt in his/her employment, business or vocation,

that the bankrupt could not reasonably travel to and from his/her place of employment without a vehicle, due to lack of alternative transport,

that the bankrupt’s prospects of obtaining employment would diminish without use of the vehicle, even though the bankrupt may not be in employment at the date of the bankruptcy order. In such cases, the official receiver will need to decide whether there is a reasonable prospect of the bankrupt obtaining work,

that a self employed bankrupt who does not have work at the date of the bankruptcy order may be able to retain a vehicle as an exempt asset if he/she can satisfy the official receiver that there is a reasonable prospect of him/her obtaining work, and

that the bankrupt’s prospect of obtaining work would diminish even if a vehicle requires repair but will then be used to travel to work or to seek employment.

The bankrupt must satisfy the official receiver that a vehicle is necessary. If the bankrupt cannot do so, and the official receiver has reasonable grounds for believing that the vehicle is not exempt, he/she is entitled to treat the property as part of the estate and deal with it accordingly.

moyilla

taib0 wrote: »

Hi Moyilla,
thank you for your post absolutely solid gold that I forgot about yearly badge etc (we are private hire) . Surely they wouldn't take my cars I wouldn't be able to work ?? would they ?

Regards,

Taib0

No they shouldn't, when it comes to your interview with the OR and they ask about your asset's, obviously then it will be your cars.
This is your chance to explain that if you have no car you cannot work simple as that, they are your "tools", you are self employed.

Also I would write a letter to the OR explaining what a detrimental effect it will have on your family and the process of them selling your cars waiting to get cash to buy cheaper ones (that won't pass taxi test's) will be too long.

Also tell them that the average time to get a car through is 6 weeks, in that time your necessary bills will still be getting unpaid - more debt etc.

We did it and 6 weeks later the OR exempted my partners car :T
It was such a relief.