Result of Damp & Timber survey. Game over

set

Apologies as I e also posted this in mortgage forum, didn't know which was best

Hi

After valuation (purchase price £90k) lender wanted Damp & Timber survey. We haven't had full report as it was only done today. Carried out by independent so no selling as they don't do the works just surveys. Anyway, he rang straight after he'd done the survey. Apologies but I can't remember everything he said but the gist is:

Damp proof course bridged, I think the concrete round the property it up to the top of the airbricks. He said it would be a foot deep. Plastering walls. Also said something about pointing. He said that's the main cause of damp. Also said about a couple of other things, small flat roof, would need doing soon. Having no idea about all of this I just asked straight out is this going to be expensive, he said yes. He said to get an estimate of work with reputable builder and see what quote is. I dread to think what the quote will be.

We won't get report until next week when we will send it to lender. After reading posts on here we are thinking the lender will put retention on mortgage or not release any funds until work is done.

to say we're gutted is an understatement, we love the flat. BUT we have had a long talk and we will send report off to lender, get a quote and then tell the vendor. We have decided that if the vendor is not prepared to get the work done then we're going to have to walki away.

Your opinions would be really welcome.
Thanks guys

Hoploz

You say it's a flat ... That could change a lot. You will only be a leaseholder. Each leaseholder will be responsible for payment of a share of all external maintenance of the building. So this is no necessarily all going to be your own personal expense. For more in depth detail of who is responsible for what, you would need to read the lease, which you may or may not have at this stage.

Implications are as above, but regarding the mortgage, I don't know how likely it is that a retention would be put on, but I'd say you wouldn't have authority to get any works done (you don't even own the building itself) till you've been through a (probably) lengthy process of getting the other flats to agree the work needs doing, going out to tender, appointing a contractor .... Etc.

set

Hoploz wrote: »

You say it's a flat ... That could change a lot. You will only be a leaseholder. Each leaseholder will be responsible for payment of a share of all external maintenance of the building. So this is no necessarily all going to be your own personal expense. For more in depth detail of who is responsible for what, you would need to read the lease, which you may or may not have at this stage.
It's a ground floor flat in a converted house. With only one other flat above. It's leasehold with 50% freehold. You're right, we haven't seen the lease yet. So unsure who is responsible for what repairs ie 50/50?

Implications are as above, but regarding the mortgage, I don't know how likely it is that a retention would be put on, but I'd say you wouldn't have authority to get any works done (you don't even own the building itself) till you've been through a (probably) lengthy process of getting the other flats to agree the work needs doing, going out to tender, appointing a contractor .... Etc.

As you said, we don't own the flat so couldn't get works done. Luckily there is only one other person to deal with but could still be a pain. We really do like the flat though. I think we will have to wait for full report to be emailed to us, submit it to lender and see what they say. We will then take it from there, or to be more accurate I'll probably be back on here asking you for advice AGAIN.

Just to say I appreciate your replies to my posts.

G_M

Most leases split the costs between the leaseholders, either equally or in proportion to the sizes of each flat.

A few lease make the upper flat responsible for roofing costs and the lower flat responsible for foundations, damp proofing etc.

You mention 'pointing' (a common cause of damp). This is the cementwork between the bricks. If it comes out/is in bad condition water can get between the bricks, so it needs replacing. Obviously this could involve walls at all heights so is likely to be a shared cost.

But the lease should specify.

If you are also buying 50% of the freehold (and the other 50% is owned by the upper flat?) you will need to put on your freeholder hat, liaise witht the other freeholder, and agree to get the work done (they might not want to!).

This is something to touch on when you knock on their door - you are planning to have a friendly chat with the uostairs flat owner this week yes? You'll find out far more about the building, the neighborhood, the neighbours, and even the downstairs flat from them than you ever will from the seller.........

set

G_M wrote: »

Most leases split the costs between the leaseholders, either equally or in proportion to the sizes of each flat.

A few lease make the upper flat responsible for roofing costs and the lower flat responsible for foundations, damp proofing etc.

You mention 'pointing' (a common cause of damp). This is the cementwork between the bricks. If it comes out/is in bad condition water can get between the bricks, so it needs replacing. Obviously this could involve walls at all heights so is likely to be a shared cost.

But the lease should specify.

If you are also buying 50% of the freehold (and the other 50% is owned by the upper flat?) you will need to put on your freeholder hat, liaise witht the other freeholder, and agree to get the work done (they might not want to!).

This is something to touch on when you knock on their door - you are planning to have a friendly chat with the uostairs flat owner this week yes? You'll find out far more about the building, the neighborhood, the neighbours, and even the downstairs flat from them than you ever will from the seller.........

Hi

Thanks for your reply. Yes other 50% is owned by upstairs flat. Upstairs flat is rented out, owner/freeholder we think live down south. The ground floor flat vendor lives up north, Scotland I think. So unfortunately we can't knock on door and have a chat. It's a shame as that would be great. Hopefully as you say costs will either be 50/50 or ground floor responsible for ground stuff & they're responsible for roof etc. either way seems fair to us.
As we don't own the flat yet we can't get any works done. If the mortgage company come back with DPC bridged so lowering of ground before giving us mortgage then we will have to go back to the vendor and let them know and leave it with her to sort or not. OR if the lender comes back with 'thanks for the report' here's your mortgage :rotfl:(which ain't gonna happen) we would get a quote from builder and find out how much it would cost and if only a couple of thousand we would get it done after completing. This is all subject to finding out from the solicitor who is responsible for what repairs etc.
my head is spinning with all this stuff, mentally we've wrote the flat off. Just wanted to be prepared for disappointment.
Thanks again

AlexMac

As G_M says, it's often the case that the lease will specify which repairs are down to the 'freeholder' which, if it's in effect a 50-50 shared freehold, means the two of you acting collectively. In the case of my last shared freehold, the six individual flat leasholders were directors of the freehold mangement company, and the lease was very precise about maintenence. Things like fixing rising damp or re-pointing were defined as shared; so we in our basement flat benefitted from everyone sharing the damp-proofing cost even though the work was done only to walls at 'our' lower level; just as we paid towards high-level gutter repairs and would have had to cough up if the roof needed renewal.

But that was easy in a flat where the responsibilities were clear, and relationships were good. Your upstairs owner may not be so co-operative, especially if the lease is wooly - for example about any re-plastering inside consequent on the damp being fixed?

That's the bad news; the good news is that the work might not cost as much as you fear. Hacking out some concrete at ground level, replacing with a shingle trench to prevent piled up soil 'bridging' up and over the damp-course, (or whatever the surveyor recommends) and a bit of pointing is likely to cost in the very low thousands, plus a grand or so if re-plastering really is required inside; it may be that once the cause of damp is sorted, the internel walls will dry naturally with heating and ventilation, as ours did once in a Victorian house.

Don't panic. Wait til the lender reacts; probably with the threat of a few£k rention. Get the builder's repair prices and haggle a bit off the purchase price; assume you'll only have to do the minimum work possible to satisfy the lender. After all, the place didn't look or smell wringing with damp when you viewed? Every Victorian house I've ever owned had a bit of damp; just get an all-clear on the timbers if the floor is 'suspended' (joists and floorboards) and ideally, reinstate a bit of sub-floor ventilation (that's what the air bricks are for if you)

And even if your co-freeholder won't play nice and share the costs, you'll have the flat you wanted! Good luck

set

AlexMac wrote: »

As G_M says, it's often the case that the lease will specify which repairs are down to the 'freeholder' which, if it's in effect a 50-50 shared freehold, means the two of you acting collectively. In the case of my last shared freehold, the six individual flat leasholders were directors of the freehold mangement company, and the lease was very precise about maintenence. Things like fixing rising damp or re-pointing were defined as shared; so we in our basement flat benefitted from everyone sharing the damp-proofing cost even though the work was done only to walls at 'our' lower level; just as we paid towards high-level gutter repairs and would have had to cough up if the roof needed renewal.

We hope that everything is 50/50 regarding repairs. That would seem the fairest way we think.

But that was easy in a flat where the responsibilities were clear, and relationships were good. Your upstairs owner may not be so co-operative, especially if the lease is wooly - for example about any re-plastering inside consequent on the damp being fixed?

We haven't seen the lease yet, we are hoping to look at it next week. We hope the other freeholder would be reasonable. Both flats were freehold only and when our vendor couldn't sell hers because it was freehold, the other freeholder agreed to share cost of 999 yr lease being done. They will benefit from this too after all.

That's the bad news; the good news is that the work might not cost as much as you fear. Hacking out some concrete at ground level, replacing with a shingle trench to prevent piled up soil 'bridging' up and over the damp-course, (or whatever the surveyor recommends) and a bit of pointing is likely to cost in the very low thousands, plus a grand or so if re-plastering really is required inside; it may be that once the cause of damp is sorted, the internel walls will dry naturally with heating and ventilation, as ours did once in a Victorian house.

Hopefully it would only cost a couple of thousand, and again hopefully the no re-plastering will be needed.

Don't panic. Wait til the lender reacts; probably with the threat of a few£k rention. Get the builder's repair prices and haggle a bit off the purchase price; assume you'll only have to do the minimum work possible to satisfy the lender. After all, the place didn't look or smell wringing with damp when you viewed? Every Victorian house I've ever owned had a bit of damp; just get an all-clear on the timbers if the floor is 'suspended' (joists and floorboards) and ideally, reinstate a bit of sub-floor ventilation (that's what the air bricks are for if you)

We will wait for the actual damp & timber report to be emailed to us and forward it to our lender as requested. All we can do then is wait and see what the lender says. The flat didn't show signs of damp when we've been to view it considering it's been empty 8-12 months. Certainly didn't smell anything and I've got a nose like a bloodhound :rotfl: We live in a flat (converted Victorian building) and there is always some signs of damp, we have a dehumidifier (it's a must for Victorian buildings isn't it:D Will certainly get someone to look at the floor (joists & floorboards)

And even if your co-freeholder won't play nice and share the costs, you'll have the flat you wanted! Good luck

To be honest, if the works cost a couple of thousand and the other freeholder won't play ball then fine, we'll do it ourselves. And like you said we'll have the flat we wanted. I'm a sucker for the high ceilings and bay windows
Thank you. Really appreciate your reply, helped a lot.