To pay or not to pay

naedanger

Hengus wrote: »

From the OP's original post it sounds like he had an online account quote As always I checked my balance when the switch completed and found to be in the region of £60 in credit unquote.

I am not defending the supplier, or its IT systems. All I am saying is that a bill correction was clearly made (as is the case with many suppliers) and the IT system followed its billing programme. The OP is now aware that there is an issue and I am sure, like most of us, he will want to see revised Final Bill before any payment is made.

Billing errors shouldn't happen but, sadly in the case of the domestic energy sector, they are an all too frequent occurence. That is the root of the problem.

OK. If the original account was online, and a bill was raised on that online account, then I understand what you are saying regarding how the error occurred.

undaunted

I think they should have contacted you rather than try to take the money back by DD without notice but if they've asked for it now you should repay this money.


If you don't they may or may not feel it worth the trouble to do so but they would be within their rights to pursue you for it in a small claims court case.

Should you wish to try your luck with brewer daves suggestion first it wont do you any harm but I think you probably know that morally you were - and are - only entitled to one refund. You haven't actually incurred any bank charges or other loss her have you?

modsandmockers

undaunted wrote: »

I think you probably know that morally you were - and are - only entitled to one refund

Yes - but as brewerdave suggested, SP’s bill administration, like that of many other energy suppliers, was/is ‘chaotic’. Where is SP’s moral entitlement to hold an ex-customer responsible for their own recently unearthed two-year-old mistake?

They are surely 'trying their luck' in the same way that the OP did two years ago!

matelodave

Wouldn't most of us notice an extra £60 in our bank account and wonder where it came from.
Taking & spending it when you don't know whether you are entitled to it is morally wrong and should have been queried at the time.

It has been construed as theft when others have spent money that has "appeared" in their accounts to which they weren't entitled (bank errors etc)

I'll agree that SP are useless and should have given warning that they were going to take the money but by keeping it the OP is in danger of getting a default on his credit file which may cause him problems in the future.

It may be nice to feel that you've given SP a kick by keeping it but it could come back and bite

modsandmockers

matelodave wrote: »

the OP is in danger of getting a default on his credit file

Yes - without their perpetual 'get out of jail free' card, the energy suppliers, god forbid, might actually be forced to review some of their business practices and their levels of customer service!

undaunted

modsandmockers wrote: »

Yes - but as brewerdave suggested, SP’s bill administration, like that of many other energy suppliers, was/is ‘chaotic’. Where is SP’s moral entitlement to hold an ex-customer responsible for their own recently unearthed two-year-old mistake?

They are surely 'trying their luck' in the same way that the OP did two years ago!

Whilst I do not disagree that some (most?!!) do need to improve their services & practices that isn't a legal argument that would get the poster far in contesting a legitimate debt. That's therefore a very debatable point you raise. People do make mistakes and are not barred in law from correcting them. I suspect a Judge would take a more sympathetic view of the suppliers argument than the posters in this case.

If they wish to try their luck at proving me wrong on this however then they are free to make that choice - and also face the consequences of that should they lose.

Why do you have so much sympathy for the poster "trying their luck" and yet object to the supplier doing so (in your eyes)?

Cardew

undaunted wrote: »

Whilst I do not disagree that some (most?!!) do need to improve their services & practices that isn't a legal argument that would get the poster far in contesting a legitimate debt. That's therefore a very debatable point you raise. People do make mistakes and are not barred in law from correcting them. I suspect a Judge would take a more sympathetic view of the suppliers argument than the posters in this case.

If they wish to try their luck at proving me wrong on this however then they are free to make that choice - and also face the consequences of that should they lose.

Why do you have so much sympathy for the poster "trying their luck" and yet object to the supplier doing so (in your eyes)?

I couldn't agree more.


Mistakes can be corrected, by both the supplier and the customer.

modsandmockers

undaunted wrote: »

People do make mistakes and are not barred in law from correcting them. I suspect a Judge would take a more sympathetic view of the suppliers argument than the posters in this case

Your earlier post referred to the OP’s moral rights (and/or lack of moral rights). Obviously, the law is on the side of the energy suppliers.

£60 is chicken-feed but, because of their chaotic business methods, the energy suppliers regularly allow debts of 100s or 1000s of £££s to accumulate over periods of years and then, when they are unable to recover the money, they often simply write the debt off completely with the result that the likes of you and I end up picking up the tab.

Why are you so sympathetic towards the ‘rights’ of the energy suppliers whilst we are all paying way over the odds for their continuing freedom to refuse to operate their 'service' with any kind of a sense of fair play towards their customers?

Skools_Out

Don't pay.

Ignore. I'm sure they will just go away eventually. As you said, they should chalk it up to experience and write it off.

You mention they have taken money from you without warning? How did they do this? Not the dreaded Direct Debit again was it?

If so, don't forget the DD guarantee. Your bank will give you back any money they have stolen

undaunted

I don't see myself as especially sympathetic to the rights of the energy suppliers - though your free to read see my thread on npower versus the vulnerable or just read through my posts in general & form your own view for a true reflection of where I sit in general. I see myself as fair - regardless of which side I'd consider right or wrong (in my honest view).

In this particular case it seems to me the poster is trying their luck - beyond what I would consider fair - whilst the supplier isn't, they merely made a mistake and seek to correct it in a fair manner.


If the poster keeps this money somebody else will ultimately pay for it (i.e other customers) in just the same way as you suggest other written off debts are paid by others and not the supplier