Possible Boundary/Land Registry query (with pics)

Wassa123

Hi all,

I'm buying a house and we've got back the results of the searches.

The land registry view (1986) looks like this:


Now looking at the northern border, it looks like the neighbour owns 2/3 of the space between the houses. However, the actual space looks like this with it being more 50/50 (with our house being on the right) (google maps - 2011):



Is the land registry just a rough guide line or is it accurate and the fence is on the neighbours land?


Also interestingly, on the land registry, the land in the gap belonging to our house to the north is roughly the same size as the land belonging to on our joined neighbours semi to the south, yet their driveway looks more 25/75. (Ignore the diagonal line, thats the compass showing where north is):

.


I've asked the solicitor to look into it, just wondering what peoples opinions on it are?

orionmoo

I'm pretty sure the deeds when you get to see them should have a more zoomed in title plan of the plot which will help better show you the boundaries

G_M

orionmoo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the deeds when you get to see them should have a more zoomed in title plan of the plot which will help better show you the boundaries

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There may be another Plan amongst the deeds eg developer's plan from when 1st built) but probably not.

Land Registry Plans are very small scale and very unreliable as to precise boundaries. See

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

PixelPound

The plans are Not necessarily accurate as to where exactly the boundary is, also the scale won't help. Any zoomed in provided for you aren't more accurate they are simply enlarged of the smaller one. Some deeds may tell you how far away from the property your boundary is, but not always. Often ex council property won't say

moneyistooshorttomention

Don't forget that any exact measurements down on the deeds may have been taken (probably will have been taken - judging by the age of the house) pre modern era. That is - prior to the more accurate measuring tools available these days.

I gather "old" measurements had a tendency to be inaccurate (because of the way they were taken not taking account of things like the slope in the ground). Add that builders are also notorious for not doing things exactly where the plans say they will do. Those things together could mean things are different anyway to any measurements the deeds have on a plan.

I believe the Land Registry margin of error on where the red boundary lines are put can be up to 18" either way.

bouicca21

Is there actually a dispute or are you trying to cover yourself just in case?

Assuming you are just trying to cover yourself, then just get the vendor and neighbour to write letters saying they agree the boundary wall/fence is in the right place and that they were erected in [whenever]. That way you've covered yourself plus got evidence for adverse possession should any dispute arise in the future.

PixelPound

http://blog.landregistry.gov.uk/drawing-line-stand-boundaries/ wrote:

I often have to start by explaining what we can’t tell you, which is exactly where your legal boundary is as our title plans only show general boundaries. In a lot of cases we can’t tell you which boundary feature you are responsible for.

The Land Registry mentions you can draw up a boundary agreement with your neighbour and that gets added to the records. See https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

jimbog

It might be interesting to look at Google Street view, as you have done, for the last 10 years or so and see how long it has been like that (it seems like a new fence) - click on the date that's on the black address icon on the top left of the street view picture and scroll it back

G_M

nic_c wrote: »

The Land Registry mentions you can draw up a boundary agreement with your neighbour and that gets added to the records. See https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

That's really going to get you off to a good start with your new neighbours! How to win friends &... all that!

davidmcn

Wassa123 wrote: »

The land registry view (1986) looks like this:

Now looking at the northern border, it looks like the neighbour owns 2/3 of the space between the houses.

It looks about 50:50 to me. The OS margin of error at that sort of scale isn't incredibly accurate. And the driveways look well-established, I don't see anything to worry about.

orionmoo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the deeds when you get to see them should have a more zoomed in title plan of the plot which will help better show you the boundaries

I'm pretty sure they won't - that's the title plan in the OP.

Land_Registry

Looks like you have the main points covered by everyone and the links provided.

In short, and from merely a registration perspective

The title plan is mapped on OS detail available at the time of first registration (1986) and will rely on the deeds submitted at that time.

Deeds will often contain a plan defining the extent in some way, sometimes with measurements.

If the houses were all built by the same builder then there probably will be an 'estate plan' a copy of which may be in the Transfer from the builder to the first owner but the detail rarely adds anything - after all the plan will have been drawn in or around 1986 as well.

As such the title plan is there to define the general boundaries only and as posted when scaled from the red line itself will represent a distance on the ground.

Boundary features can be moved/replaced over the years but that does not alter the registered extent.

Agreeing where the legal boundary lies is often down to the neighbours discussing and agreeing such matters between themselves. Formalising such agreements as posted is always advisable.

Determining the boundary position is always an option although such applications remain a rarity.