Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Moby

The definition of poverty has been argued about by sociologists etc for years and years. As Antrobus says above issues such as poor quality housing, low wages and poor education are significant pointers. My view is the Government has a duty to intervene in such areas and not leave it to market forces. This was Corbyn's message. He then gets hammered on the detail of his plans; arguments about money trees etc. He sees himself as a lightening rod for the direction of travel imo and he leaves the detail to others.

economic

Moby wrote: »

The definition of poverty has been argued about by sociologists etc for years and years. As Antrobus says above issues such as poor quality housing, low wages and poor education are significant pointers. My view is the Government has a duty to intervene in such areas and not leave it to market forces. This was Corbyn's message. He then gets hammered on the detail of his plans; arguments about money trees etc. He sees himself as a lightening rod for the direction of travel imo and he leaves the detail to others.

the problem is someone will have to pay for this and it will be the uk taxpayer. i certainly dont want to pay more taxes!

GreatApe

I truly know a huge range of people and I don't know anyone poor who doesn't also have other issues. I also know some wealthy people who have big issues who are in my eyes very 'poor' or certainly leading crap Lives even if their bank accounts have six figures sums (which will probably be gone in a few years time if they continue on their current paths l

So I am going to propose that its a fictional problem that doesn't exist. We live in a rich country with high wages and lots of opportunity. We also live in a socialist state which takes care of those who can't or don't work.

Its like homelessness its a choice in this country to be homeless. Or rather its got nothing to do with the cost of housing or job opportunities or wages its primarily down to things like addiction and mental health problems.

So trying to take other issues that cause poverty and pretending its because of high house prices or low job opportunities is IMO shifting blame.

For anyone claiming poverty is a big issue in this country can you talk us through some poor people you know and their situations?

Even on the minimum wage life is decent in the UK. A couple working minimum wage will have £31,000 annual income with little income taxes to pay.
People can live a decent life on that

That's not to say poverty doesn't exist it does but its not for lack of money its for alcohol gambling drug addictions or couples bitterly fighting etc

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

The definition of poverty has been argued about by sociologists etc for years and years. As Antrobus says above issues such as poor quality housing, low wages and poor education are significant pointers. My view is the Government has a duty to intervene in such areas and not leave it to market forces. This was Corbyn's message. He then gets hammered on the detail of his plans; arguments about money trees etc. He sees himself as a lightening rod for the direction of travel imo and he leaves the detail to others.

But in the UK
wages are high
Food is cheap
Housing is cheap (outside of London)
The state tops up poor peoples income where they can't pay for all the above alone.
Unemployment is close to zero (those unemployed for >6 months is only about 1%)

The quality of a home is primarily down to how well the occupants keep it. On the same street with identical homes you can find ones that are a total trash heep and ones that are spotless. Some people choose to live like animals why must you blame everything on the state?

One dysfunctional family I know of for instance live in a council flat. Almost all the internal doors and walls (even the bathroom door!) are broken extensively due to the multiple physical fights the children and parents have had with each other. Who's fault is that? They are poor because they are dysfunctional addicted to gambling and alcohol. If you gave them a million pounds I'd wager within two years they would be right back where they are. In fact I would wager giving them a million pounds would most likely increase their odds of killing each other.

As for reports just because someone releases a report it doesn't make it valid. Even in scientific papers most of it is doctored data BS. In social studies its probably the same level of doctored BS plus an additional layer of poor mathematics and statistic skills on top.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

I truly know a huge range of people and I don't know anyone poor who doesn't also have other issues. I also know some wealthy people who have big issues who are in my eyes very 'poor' or certainly leading crap Lives even if their bank accounts have six figures sums (which will probably be gone in a few years time if they continue on their current paths l

So I am going to propose that its a fictional problem that doesn't exist. We live in a rich country with high wages and lots of opportunity. We also live in a socialist state which takes care of those who can't or don't work.

Its like homelessness its a choice in this country to be homeless. Or rather its got nothing to do with the cost of housing or job opportunities or wages its primarily down to things like addiction and mental health problems.

So trying to take other issues that cause poverty and pretending its because of high house prices or low job opportunities is IMO shifting blame.

For anyone claiming poverty is a big issue in this country can you talk us through some poor people you know and their situations?

Even on the minimum wage life is decent in the UK. A couple working minimum wage will have £31,000 annual income with little income taxes to pay.
People can live a decent life on that

That's not to say poverty doesn't exist it does but its not for lack of money its for alcohol gambling drug addictions or couples bitterly fighting etc

exactly. i was shot down for saying poverty is usually their own fault.

it seems socialist justice gang are rampant everywhere.

i totally agree there is not much that needs changing apart from government spending to reduce the deficit.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

But in the UK
wages are high
Food is cheap
Housing is cheap (outside of London)
The state tops up poor peoples income where they can't pay for all the above alone.
Unemployment is close to zero (those unemployed for >6 months is only about 1%)

The quality of a home is primarily down to how well the occupants keep it. On the same street with identical homes you can find ones that are a total trash heep and ones that are spotless. Some people choose to live like animals why must you blame everything on the state?

One dysfunctional family I know of for instance live in a council flat. Almost all the internal doors and walls (even the bathroom door!) are broken extensively due to the multiple physical fights the children and parents have had with each other. Who's fault is that? They are poor because they are dysfunctional addicted to gambling and alcohol. If you gave them a million pounds I'd wager within two years they would be right back where they are. In fact I would wager giving them a million pounds would most likely increase their odds of killing each other.

As for reports just because someone releases a report it doesn't make it valid. Even in scientific papers most of it is doctored data BS. In social studies its probably the same level of doctored BS plus an additional layer of poor mathematics and statistic skills on top.

exactly. you always hear of people after winning the lottery, end up wasting it all. usually any problem can be blamed on the person unless genetics/parenting are to blame.

GreatApe

If something could be done to help these dysfunctional families then I am all for it even if it costs me a little more in taxes (longer term it would cost less as the cycle is broken). I don't envy these people they have the worst lives imaginable. In most cases its not about more money.

I am not sure what can be done. Its difficult to change people.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

If something could be done to help these dysfunctional families then I am all for it even if it costs me a little more in taxes (longer term it would cost less as the cycle is broken). I don't envy these people they have the worst lives imaginable. In most cases its not about more money.

I am not sure what can be done. Its difficult to change people.

its just human nature and part of life. there really is a fine line between being normal and being dysfunctonal.

have a look at jordan peterson youtube videos.

kabayiri

GreatApe wrote: »

If something could be done to help these dysfunctional families then I am all for it even if it costs me a little more in taxes (longer term it would cost less as the cycle is broken). I don't envy these people they have the worst lives imaginable. In most cases its not about more money.

I am not sure what can be done. Its difficult to change people.

We have thrown billions at the problem through things like work program, and the results are in truth sh*te.

(unless you are the owner of one of these quasi governmental organisations that managed to sell up at a nice profit...but let's not go there!)

Some common factors come up though :
- language : the demand for English courses has grown. If you can't speak the language you can't gain quality work, and there are more people who come here without basic English now.

- transport : it's not just cost. It's surprisingly difficult to make certain journeys across the South Yorkshire zone on public transportation for example. I'm not sure why this is.

michaels

The day of the Manchester bomb Corbyn made political capital.

The day of the London fire Corbyn made political capital.

Sure in both cases there are important arguements to be made but doing it on the same day smacks of making advantage of others misery. On the day a simple statement of stmpathy and thanks for to the emergency services and leave the politicing to the next day please.