Corbynomics: A Dystopia

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

He inferred I was a terrorist fellow traveller. That certainly was the clincher!:mad:

you have had numerous opportunities to condemn the IRA and to say whether you think IRA supporters are 'decent ' or 'principled' people.

You have refused to condemn either the IRA or their well known known supporters, Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott.

You have the opportunity again now to clarify your attitudes if you have the courage to stand by whatever your principles are.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

you have had numerous opportunities to condemn the IRA and to say whether you think IRA supporters are 'decent ' or 'principled' people.

You have refused to condemn either the IRA or their well known known supporters, Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott.

You have the opportunity again now to clarify your attitudes if you have the courage to stand by whatever your principles are.

Sorry Clapton despite your view of your own self importance....you don't get to define the terms of the debate or it's boundaries. However on my own terms and from my own historical perspective on very complicated issues I will say that I condemn many of the activities of the IRA and this would include any terrorist activities. I have always done so and will always do so in the future. Just as I would expect supporters of Thatcher to accept that Thatcher was wrong to invite General Pinochet to these shores and wrong to support the racist Apartheid regime in South Africa for as long as she did while incidently musing about whether Nelson Mandela was a terrorist!

In relation to your second point regarding Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott I do not recognise your characterisation of them as IRA supporters. I have told you this before. I know you don't accept that but that's the way it is. Also my view is based on having met all three of them.

Now I have clarified my views.....are you going to 'man up' and apologise to me for the sneering way in which you characterised me as a fellow traveller of terrorists????? because I have found that extremely offensive?

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Sorry Clapton despite your view of your own self importance....you don't get to define the terms of the debate or it's boundaries. However on my own terms and from my own historical perspective on very complicated issues I will say that I condemn many of the activities of the IRA and this would include any terrorist activities. I have always done so and will always do so in the future. Just as I would expect supporters of Thatcher to accept that Thatcher was wrong to invite General Pinochet to these shores and wrong to support the racist Apartheid regime in South Africa for as long as she did while incidently musing about whether Nelson Mandela was a terrorist!

In relation to your second point regarding Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott I do not recognise your characterisation of them as IRA supporters. I have told you this before. I know you don't accept that but that's the way it is. Also my view is based on having met all three of them.

Now I have clarified my views.....are you going to 'man up' and apologise to me for the sneering way in which you characterised me as a fellow traveller of terrorists????? because I have found that extremely offensive?

Corbyn , McDonnell and Abbott are long term IRA supporters.
No person of good will can be ignorant of those facts.
It is true that Corbyn now refuses to discuss the issue of the IRA anymore but that just makes him unprincipled and cowardly as well as being an IRA supporter.

McDonnell view is on record as wanting to honour the men of the bombs and the bullets.
Corbyn was willing to meet the leader of IRA at Westminster shortly after the Brighton bombing : there is no record of him confronting the IRA bombers or condemning the bombing.

At best you are ignorant and / or in denial but acolytes are generally blind to the sins and crimes of their idols.

Do some research in their past and consider the victims and families of the victims of this 'complicated situation'.

Generali

Moby wrote: »

I note you selecively say nothing about the numbers of female MPs?

Moby wrote: »

Sorry Clapton despite your view of your own self importance....you don't get to define the terms of the debate or it's boundaries.

:rotfl:

You utter hypocrite.

gadgetmind

Tromking wrote: »

I think they`ve moved on from reducing wastage

I'm guessing you don't know anyone who works in local government!

gadgetmind

Moby wrote: »

He inferred I was a terrorist fellow traveller.

Many people here have criticised the IRA, and those who openly support them both now and historically. Those who don't do the same perhaps need to explain why.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

Corbyn , McDonnell and Abbott are long term IRA supporters.
No person of good will can be ignorant of those facts.
It is true that Corbyn now refuses to discuss the issue of the IRA anymore but that just makes him unprincipled and cowardly as well as being an IRA supporter.

McDonnell view is on record as wanting to honour the men of the bombs and the bullets.
Corbyn was willing to meet the leader of IRA at Westminster shortly after the Brighton bombing : there is no record of him confronting the IRA bombers or condemning the bombing.

At best you are ignorant and / or in denial but acolytes are generally blind to the sins and crimes of their idols.

Do some research in their past and consider the victims and families of the victims of this 'complicated situation'.

Completely expected this response. I'm not interested in your bigotted views of these people. All you ever do is repeat the same mantra again and again as a distraction from dealing with challenges made to you. I think you are totally ignorant of the issues. Attempts to enlighten you lead to repeat responses of the same points.... so the argument/debate does not progress.

Now again are you going to apologise to me for calling me a terrorists fellow traveller?????

Generali

Moby wrote: »

Completely expected this response. I'm not interested in your bigotted views of these people. All you ever do is repeat the same mantra again and again as a distraction from dealing with challenges made to you. I think you are totally ignorant of the issues. Attempts to enlighten you lead to repeat responses of the same points.... so the argument/debate does not progress.

Now again are you going to apologise to me for calling me a terrorists fellow traveller?????

You openly support people that openly supported terrorists. What does that make you do you think?

Moby

gadgetmind wrote: »

Many people here have criticised the IRA, and those who openly support them both now and historically. Those who don't do the same perhaps need to explain why.

That sounds very McCarthyite to me but my answer is simply this..... Supporting/condemning a whole movement is difficult because it ignores the subtlety of the issues at stake. A blanket response to such issues is inadvisable because it denies the experiences of opponents or victims e.g the activities of the Black and Tans towards the Catholic tradition and the Loyalist paramilitary activities and their collusion with the police and British Govmt, (Glennane Gang activities for example), or the events of Bloody Sunday. You see some individuals depending on their political perspective would tend to emphasise the issues that were important to them and ignore counter arguments/viewpoints. By this I mean......to condemn the IRA quite justifiably would also reasonably require a condemnation of Britain's activities in Ireland since Oliver Cromwell! I also think that demanding a simplistic blanket 'condemnation' is often used as a vehicle to deride/browbeat political opponents who do not fit into the 'establishment' profile as an attempt to smear and denigrate them.

Nevertheless I completely condemn Brighton, Birmingham, Manchester, Warrington bombs etc etc........but also the Dublin and Monaghan bombs! I have never ever supported any terrorist or attempted to justify their actions.

Moby

Generali wrote: »

You openly support people that openly supported terrorists. What does that make you do you think?

Complete rubbish and read my response to Gadget. Now is Clapton going to APOLOGISE?