Do I need certifictate for new electric socket

Annie1960

ohreally wrote: »

I'm not an electrician but I hold 17th edition and have done the periodic inspection and testing course. I'd perhaps look for an electrician rather then an individual waving pieces of paper around.

Nobody has waved any pieces of paper around at me yet!

Does the term ''electrician' automatically means 'qualified electrician'? I would have thought so, but it seems this issue is not as clear-cut as it seems.

zax47

The issue for the householder is that yes, you would imagine all electricians are "trained" or "qualified" or "certified" and "competent". What do these terms actually mean? Are they the same or different?

Some of us are "time served", completed an apprenticeship and have many years experience, whilst others have not necessarily - but nevertheless are all deemed "trained" or "qualified", on paper at least. Even the DIYer who has done his research and carries out work for himself in compliance with the "rules" can be deemed "competent" by the exact meaning within the rules.

Regardless, we are constantly required to keep up to date as rules & regulations change - thus remaining being "certified". The "rules" for want of a better word, are enshrined in the IET Wiring Regulations that we are (or should be) trained to follow and adhere to. Currently we are on the 17th Edition (BS 7671:2008) of these - incorporating the recent Amendment 3. They are not "law", just "guidance for best practice" - but following them results in safe, consistent, work that should not endanger the customer or any electrician who subsequently works on what you did - we're all reading from the same hymn sheet as it were.

To complicate things further, some work we do comes under a section of the Building Regulations - "Part P". It depends on the nature and location of the work as to whether it falls into this category or not. It's mainly major work - adding completely new circuits/wiring or replacing consumer units ("fuse boxes") - that this covers, rather than smaller jobs, but basically it says that if your work is in compliance with IET wiring regs then that's fine for compliance with Part P too. Yes, an extra level of beaurocracy that we desperately need (not!)
Electricians can either notify the local building control dept about these works, pay a fee and have them come to check them, or join a professional scheme ("Part P qualified") who assess you and your work annually (for a hefty fee!) and allow you to self-certify the Part P work, via them, to the local building control dept.

Competent?
Any "proper" electrician who has undergone appropriate skills training, to the required level and thus "certified" to carry out the trade is, by IET standards, "competent". They can, & should, issue certificates for the work they have done to show it meets current rules & regs and has, if appropriate, passed certain tests. Minor Works Certificate (MWC) or Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) depending on the scope of the work .

In addition, a member of a "Part P" scheme is also deemed to be "competent" both to carry out and self-certify any Part P required work they've done (as they have to be trained and "certified" to the current rules in order to be accepted as a member anyway) but they can save some time/effort/money by not requiring the local authority to do any extra work before issuing a completion certificate to the householder.

Complicated? Try being an electrician!

Ectophile

Annie1960 wrote: »

Nobody has waved any pieces of paper around at me yet!

Does the term ''electrician' automatically means 'qualified electrician'? I would have thought so, but it seems this issue is not as clear-cut as it seems.

An "electrician" is just somebody who does electrics. There's no legal protection on the term, so it could be anybody.

"Competent" means the person knows what they are doing. They may have qualifications, or they may have read a few books. Or watched some videos on YouTube. It's a remarkably slippery term, with no proper legal definition.

A "qualified" electrician has one or more bits of paper, probably from City & Guilds. Be aware that it's possible to pass at least one of the exams after just a week's training. Such people are sometimes referred to disparagingly as "5 day wonders".

Just replacing one socket and adding another isn't notifiable, so anyone who is "competent" can do it - whatever that means.

ohreally

Competent was defined as...

A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger, and where appropriate, injury to themselves and others.'

As of 1 July, this definition has been dropped.

Annie1960

ohreally wrote: »

Competent was defined as...


As of 1 July, this definition has been dropped.

So is there a new definition?

zax47

Annie1960 wrote: »

So is there a new definition?

Yes, the amendment 3 (effective July 1st 2015) now states 3 categories of Person (Previously just 2 - Ordinary Person or Competent Person);

Ordinary Person - a Person who is neither a Skilled Person or an Instructed Person (that has hardly changed, it was previously "not a Competent Person" or words to that effect)

Instructed Person (Electrically) - A person adequately advised or supervised by a Skilled Person (Electrically) to enable that person to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create. {This could be a trainee or apprentice learning the trade, or a homeowner acting under direct supervision of a Skilled Person (Electrically).}

Skilled Person (Electrically) - A Person who possess, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be undertaken, adequate education, training or practical skills and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create. (Pretty much as was - someone with appropriate skills, knowledge and training)

They are the official descriptions but in essence they are a) the unskilled layman, b) the learner, c) the skilled tradesman.