Contact stopped unreasonably

TBagpuss

I would suggest that you make notes for yourself - on a practical level, you may find it helpful to rule a line to divide your sheet of paper / note book in half (vetical line) and make your notes down one side - you can then use the other to note any comments that she or the judge make, or her responses to your points, so you don't miss out things you want to say, or repeat things which have already been discussed.

A court will be looking at how yo move matters forward. She has now said that
- she hasd no concerns about your care of son
- she wants you to have more contact
- you won't agree to have longer periods
- you try to dictate to her.

wht I would suggest tha you do is to think about proposals you can make for terms of an order to address those points. It is less about givingthe court evidence of which of you had been telling the truth than about wotking out how to make things work going forward. So Rather than try to provide lots of evidence about what has happened I would suggest that you say very briefly that you have read the Cafcass repiort, that you don't accept that her statements about how things have been in the past are accurate but you do feel strongly that as communication btween the two of you is poor, you do need a clearer structure for contact.

think about specifc proposals. FOR EXAMPLE

Faor holidays, it might be respjable to suggest that the order records that you will notify her not less than (say) 12 weeks in advance of any holiday you wish to book which would result in you missing a planned contact visit. She has 7 days to respond, providing documentary proof, if this would create serious problems (for instance, if it conflicts with a pre-bookd weekend away for her) in which case she must also propose alterntive dates AND any other dates to avoid.
If she does not respomnd, or if she does not provide evidence of the committment which means you missing that contact is a problem, then the holiday goes ahead in any event.

That you will have son for a minimum of (say) one week during the school summer holiday, dates for that week to be included no later than (say) the end of the school easter holiday a nd if not agreed to default to the secnd full week of the school holiday (for example)

That if mum cancels a contact (other than for documented medical reasons) then you will automatically have a different day in lieu (e.g. if you see him evey other weekend, then if she cancels a weekend, he would automatically be made available to you the following weekend, subject to your own availability, unless the reason for the cancellation was that he was unwell, and had been seen by a doctor or hospital)

In thinking about proposals, try to come up with suggestions which address her alleged concerns as well as yours - so as she says that you don't ofer alterntives, write into your proposals for the notice that you give her if you need to miss for a holiday, prividion for your notice to include your proposed dates for contact in lieu of the contact missed.

As she says that you dictate to her when you will have cotnact, suggest a fixed pattern, and a specifc arrangement for the minimum holiiday (e.g your proposal might be that he comes to you for am uinimum of one week during the summer, for 1 week during Easter holidays and one week during the christmas break, with the dates either to be fixed (e.g. 2nd full week of the summer holiday, 1st half of the Easter holiday) or agreed by a specific date (e.g no later than the first day of the term before the holiday)

it is understandable that you want the Court to recognise and 'punish' her behaviour but the focus of the court is to try to work out what will be in your son's best interests - it is looking forward, not back.

if you can't come to an agreement at this hearing then the Judge may set the case down for a longer hearing and you can ask permission to file a statement. If hat happens, I would recommend that you limit your evidence about what has happened to giving specifc examples to illustrate *why* you are making a particualr proposal or asking for a specifc wording or tyoe of order.

(e.g. "in the past, there have been issues when I have given details of my proposed holiday dates well in advance, and have asked for confirmation that the dates have been agreed. I have then had no response so have made arrangemetns ion the assumtpion that the proposal was acceptable, and have then been told at very short notice that it is not conveneient. because of this, I feel that the order needs to have a clear timescale for any objections to be raised, or alternative proposals to be made, so we both know where we stand. I also feel that there needs to be a clear deadline after which the dates are not changedm as there have ben issues in the past where I have been given very late notice that a suggested date is not agreed, which has made it very difficuklt for me to plan or book ahead"
OR
"I feel it would be helpful for us to have a fixed arrangemetns for holiday contact, as we don't always communicate efectively. I am clear that I have wanted, and have oftten asked, for [son] to have extended viasits with me in holidays, [ex] has stated that I won't agree to have him. I accept that I have sometimes been unable to agree to take him when asked as I the request has been made at very short notice. I belive that we could resolve this issue, and ensure that [son] gets to have extended visiti with me and the [mum] is able to have a break by including in the order fixed priovision for holiday contact / provision for a minimumm of [e.g. one week in the summer] and setting out deadlines for dates to be confirmed."

If there are practical issues such as how far in advance you need to book time off work then be clear about that - e.g. "I am proposing that [mum] sets out her proposals for the dates for [son] to come to me so she can take a holiday no less than 14 weeks before the dates that she wants, and that I respond to either confirm the dates, or suggest alterntiaves, within 7 days as I would typically need around 10 weeks notice to book time off work / I have suggested that [mum] let me know no later than Christmas of which week she would like me to have son during the summer, as th summer holiday period gets bbooked up very early at work and I would need to book the time off as soon as the holiday caldenr is ioopend up in January in order to get a specific week"

Janetta

Excellent advice TBag!!!!

Road weary :

I hope all goes well with you in court.
The only advice i can give is be clear & specific.Have your sons terms dates , school half term holidays & a diary. Sit down for 2015-2016 and write alternate or whatever weekends you suggest to court.
Then write detailed specifics e.g collect from school on what time, date & location - return child at time, location, date & to whom.
Who to contact in an emergency, the number

The same for half term & holidays ( suggest & set out dates, length of holiday, collect from, time, location address etc

Then 8 weeks notice for holidays abroad same as above info- however include: full flight details, time, airport, landing destination, full hotel address whilst abroad, room number & contact details, return address, returned at, time & location with date. ( should there be a delay you will call???? In the event other parent wants to call or child will be assisted to call absent parent on ????

Finally. If you could get this done sent to your ex partner & her solicitor prior to court & presented in the bundle for the judge its a great starting point of suggested ideas.

Stick to the facts as you have here in this thread that you have always had consistent contact and wish to formalise it. Dont bad mouth her and you should have no problems

Just remember court orders can be costly to put in place and maintain escpecially if your ex partner doesn't play ball. However in the presence of the judge sitting its pretty informal.

However i hope the advice helps and I'm sure you will be fine. - let us all know how you get on

Just don't ask !!!

roadweary

So, what did and didn't happen, surprises etc....

The Cafcass advisor let me know she was now insisting on mid week contact every week with me doing all the travelling, and 5 weeks of holiday, and flexible other assistance.

In the court it was a formal setting with 3 magistrates and a legal advisor.

The accusations levied at me by my ex were mostly met with "we can't legislate for that".

Nobody admonished my ex for stopping all contact.

There was a lot of pressure on me to have my son for more time than I felt reasonable.

The court seemed very reasonable in agreeing what could be included in a court order....in other words, they wouldn't insist on a mid week visit being stipulated as work might make that impossible so that fell into "other access as agreed".

However, they wouldn't agree that I should know where I was collecting my son by the day before - "we can't legislate for that"

Contact will re-start this weekend as per my normal weekends.

They wouldn't discuss arrangements for my upcoming holiday where I will miss the second weekend in the court order - we need to be "adults". Sure, but I imagine she will then immediately threaten to go back to court or at least log it as a breach or the court order. It's all stress that could have been dealt with in the court for such an immediate variation.

The court order apparently is written in stone unless one of us is sick, my son is sick, work interferes etc. That effectively means that if she point blank refuses to change a weekend, I cannot have any holiday that crosses a weekend with care. I really need to understand the legal basis here and whether if I ask for one date with months of notice and the request is ignored or refused, if I would get prosecuted for missing a weekend?

The court wouldn't discuss a length of time that she should respond to requests for swaps etc.....

I will still see my son as much as possible, but I had to prevent a court order stipulating things that my ex would be insistent upon as it would make normal life very difficult.

However, I am surprised that the court order is binding in both directions....I thought she just had to make my son available to me....unless one of us were ill.

My mind is a bit befuddled at the moment.....a lot to take in.

Still, I don't regret doing what I had to do to keep up contact with my son.

ALIBOBSY

Good for you regarding contact, kids need both parents unless there is some kind of abuse involved.

However the only thing I did think regarding holidays is you know when you are having access so don't book holidays to cover those days. This is not an issue, you do what all full time parents single and couples do, you fit work, holidays and life around your kids end of. So I would just get on with it and try to avoid any more court action, not condoning your partners actions btw they should be more flexible and you should BOTH be putting the child first, but the holiday thing is a non issue I reckon.

Hopefully your partner will be less awkward about the upcoming holiday as its so soon after the court action, and after that you can fit around your child.

Good Luck
Ali x

Guest101

roadweary wrote: »

So, what did and didn't happen, surprises etc....

The Cafcass advisor let me know she was now insisting on mid week contact every week with me doing all the travelling, and 5 weeks of holiday, and flexible other assistance.

In the court it was a formal setting with 3 magistrates and a legal advisor. - Why was this magistrates court and not county court?

The accusations levied at me by my ex were mostly met with "we can't legislate for that". - Correct.

Nobody admonished my ex for stopping all contact. - Court is about the future, not the past in these circumstances

There was a lot of pressure on me to have my son for more time than I felt reasonable. – The court usually follows CAFCASS recommendations.

The court seemed very reasonable in agreeing what could be included in a court order....in other words, they wouldn't insist on a mid week visit being stipulated as work might make that impossible so that fell into "other access as agreed". – Sensible.

However, they wouldn't agree that I should know where I was collecting my son by the day before - "we can't legislate for that" – Less sensible, they can legislate for that. (magistrates…)

Contact will re-start this weekend as per my normal weekends. – Excellent, congrats!

They wouldn't discuss arrangements for my upcoming holiday where I will miss the second weekend in the court order - we need to be "adults". – Exactly. She needs to accept that you are entitled to a holiday, just like she is. The court is telling you to let her know in advance. Sure, but I imagine she will then immediately threaten to go back to court or at least log it as a breach or the court order. It's all stress that could have been dealt with in the court for such an immediate variation.

The court order apparently is written in stone unless one of us is sick, my son is sick, work interferes etc. That effectively means that if she point blank refuses to change a weekend, I cannot have any holiday that crosses a weekend with care. I really need to understand the legal basis here and whether if I ask for one date with months of notice and the request is ignored or refused, if I would get prosecuted for missing a weekend? – Prosecuted? This isn’t a criminal matter. It would be contempt of court. A civil matter. The court would be looking at reasonableness. Were you reasonable with your notice. Did you make alternate suggestions

The court wouldn't discuss a length of time that she should respond to requests for swaps etc..... – Magistrates…

I will still see my son as much as possible, but I had to prevent a court order stipulating things that my ex would be insistent upon as it would make normal life very difficult.

However, I am surprised that the court order is binding in both directions....I thought she just had to make my son available to me....unless one of us were ill. – It’s not about you or her, its about your child.

My mind is a bit befuddled at the moment.....a lot to take in.

Still, I don't regret doing what I had to do to keep up contact with my son.

Why magistrates court?

roadweary

I still have the situation where the weekend in question is approaching.

She says she cannot have him that weekend, but I am abroad. I have offered alternatives but she is not budging.

The Child Arrangments Order hasn't yet arrived, but it is bound to before that weekend.

She has had 9 weeks' notice - since before the C100 was submitted.

I really do not want to fight, but can't see an answer. I have nobody else that can look after my son.

I can't afford the money or stress of pulling out of this holiday with my wife at the last moment.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
R

PS - There is a single court building in the town the case was assigned to.....I think they cover almost everything there.....they called it a Family Court for this hearing....and there were 3 magistrates, that's all I know.

Guest101

roadweary wrote: »

I still have the situation where the weekend in question is approaching.

She says she cannot have him that weekend, but I am abroad. I have offered alternatives but she is not budging.

The Child Arrangments Order hasn't yet arrived, but it is bound to before that weekend.

She has had 9 weeks' notice - since before the C100 was submitted.

I really do not want to fight, but can't see an answer. I have nobody else that can look after my son.

I can't afford the money or stress of pulling out of this holiday with my wife at the last moment.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
R

PS - There is a single court building in the town the case was assigned to.....I think they cover almost everything there.....they called it a Family Court for this hearing....and there were 3 magistrates, that's all I know.

My local magistrates court has this too, but I'd still submit to county court.


Then a judge actually knows the law.

themull1

Why can't she have him that weekend? If she is the parent with care and you can't have him that weekend, she's the one that has to make alternative arrangements if she can't look after him, not you.

roadweary

She says she has a course to maintain her Pilates (or similar) qualification for teaching.

Previously I had understood the parent with care thing like you - but now from what the magistrate said, I'm bound by the child arrangements order to have him on my weekends.

I've since found out magistrates aren't legally qualified so he might have been wrong. There was a legal advisor but perhaps it's not the done thing to correct a magistrate?

I really need to know the reality here.

Cheers,
R

Janetta

Hello Roadweary,

Dont stress,
Here goes,

Write to your wife & her solicitor,
Inform them that you wrote to them prior to the court order that you would be on holiday for ..... Period.

Whilst you are aware the court order is in place, and it is your turn for contact you are unable to have little one and would request a alternat date.

State that your wife was aware of the dates for the holiday and has since made no arrangements knowing you would be on holiday.

To avoid further costs & a amendment to the court order. I await any resolutions you suggests.

Firstly the order is not set in stone . Your ex will not want to incurr costs for a application - however her solicitor will advise her ( once she sees the proof you told your wife the date ) costs from taking her solicitors advise.


Go on holiday, enjoy yourself & remember this " tit for tat" will go on & on until one of you stops responding

Always be reasonable in your approach, offer suggestions & alternatives and you will be suprised how her solicitor will advise her.

Enjoy your holiday! 🙊🙈🙉