Excel signage in Prestwich impossible to read, IAS thinks not....!

Coupon-mad

1 Excel is pursuing my son as he is the registered keeper, although they have no evidence as to who was driving on the night in question and I am in fact the main driver named on the insurance. I would like to attend the court as a lay representative to speak on my son's behalf, how do I do this?

Your son can mention it in a covering letter with the DQ for now - and you should carry with you to the hearing, a copy of this, highlighting where the legislation makes it clear you can do this (your son will not be able to address the Judge, only the lay rep):

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/made

...and also include in your covering letter with the DQ, a short paragraph mentioning the course of harassment by phone. Also another line or two (keep it as snappy as possible) pointing out that there is no cause of action against a registered keeper outwith the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 which, by their own admission, this claimant does not comply with at all (their choice - believed to be because Excel cannot meet the strict service deadlines so they gave up with the POFA in Summer 2014). This means a keeper cannot be pursued under any applicable law, nor compelled to name the driver, so you respectfully ask for early scrutiny by a Judge of the unreasonable conduct of this Claimant and lack of particulars of claim.

2 I note that a few people have recently beaten Excel in court, e.g. lamilad, how do I get hold of transcripts? I'm not really relying on POFA but it would be good to have it up my sleeve if the poor signage/lighting arguments don't do the trick.....

The Parking Prankster hosts the ones we have and I think one recent one is a BW Legal one (Excel or VCS). Google 'Parking Prankster case law'. I am hoping Lamilad gets a transcript of his case if possible. I have no idea how Juke Joint lost (if that case was real). ALL are winnable.

Matthew87

Any update on this Tracey? Did you ever submit a Part 18 request to BW?

traceynob

I submitted a Part 18 request and as anticipated BW Legal responded with their usual codswallop and didn't provide any of the information requested. I had asked for evidence of signage, breakdown of charges, evidence of contract with landowner, etc, so didn't really expect to get anything sensible back.

Sent off the Directions Questionnaire and had a letter saying the case has been transferred to Bury court, so just waiting for a court date now. I find the Parking Pranksters blog very useful, he has reported a few Excel/VCS cases recently where they have ended up having their butts kicked, really hoping that helps my/our case........

Matthew87

Thanks Tracey. I'll send BW a Part 18 request (not expecting anything back), and then I'll mention their unreasonableness in my defence. Any chance of seeing your request, and their response?

Matthew87

Any nearer to getting that court date Tracey?

Beckydug

I'm having the same problem with excel parking ltd
I've just received a letter threatening court action now!
Please let me know how your went Tracey

traceynob

Sorry I've not responded for a while, I find it all a bit depressing to come on here and see that despite the valiant efforts of everyone, nothing has changed, in fact it seems to be getting worse based on the fact that Excel have issued more court claims so far this year compared to the whole of 2016....!
Our court date is 22nd March, my bundle is about to be handed into court to meet (just about) the 14 day deadline.

Coupon-mad

Great stuff.

have you reiterated hoohoo's words from post #73 in your Witness Statement?

Did you read lamilad's two victories v Excel on MSE and on pepipoo, where he posted in detail? Thanks to his generosity in buying the court transcript which wasn't cheap and asking the Parking Prankster to host it (Excel v Lamoureux) on the second page of the Prankster's 'case law' page, you can use his case transcript from his November case where he beat Excel.

It is particularly useful as part of your exhibits to show no keeper liability, if you are defending this as keeper and the driver has never been identified. Lamilad covers what to put here, in post #15, for keepers defending v a non-POFA PCN:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112205

Make sure you also exhibit Schedule 4 itself, the Beavis sign as a comparison, and Henry Greenslade's words 'Understanding Keeper liability' from the POPLA Annual Report 2015.

I would also have as an exhibit to support the Excel unclear signs argument, Martin Cutts' article for the Plain Language Commission:

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/plcdev/files/130/original/DVLA-BPA-23May2012AsPub.pdf

Don't forget your costs schedule:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72079752#Comment_72079752

HTH

traceynob

Court case on 22/3/17 Excel v Mr S at Bury County Court, Claim Number C8DP3H9Y
We won...!!!! :T:T
The case was actually against my son but I had been fighting it on his behalf and had planned to attend as lay representative but unfortunately due to work commitments I wasn't in the UK on the day which made it a bit difficult. Fortunately a family friend stepped in at the last minute armed with our comprehensive defence & exhibit pack which ran to about 150 pages......
Excel/BW legal didn't bother to attend, they sent along a local solicitor, who I think was covering a few other car parking cases that day. Their evidence was an absolute joke, the so-called contract with the landowner was a witness statement dated 29/9/2014, i.e. 5 months before the parking event. Their photographs of the signage were also abysmal, they were blurred and most of the writing couldn't be read.

The judge had clearly looked at all the evidence beforehand, so we didn't have to go through it all again, and it took about 10 minutes for him to announce that he agreed with us that the signage was not clear, not legible, not sufficiently illuminated at night, and dismissed the claim. He was clearly familiar with that car park, I think Excel have lost a few cases there recently.

It feels such a relief that after two years of being ignored by Excel, BW Legal, the DVLA, the SRA, the ICO, the IPC & the landowner, a judge had finally agreed with us that the signage was inadequate and did not form a contract. So time for a rest while we contemplate who to sue for damages & costs...? Time to turn the tables methinks.

Massive thanks to all the regulars on here who helped with advice and moral support

Coupon-mad

Yay, yet another forum defence winner, well done to your son and the lay rep family friend!