Problems at the end of tenancy

Bored

Yes, she knows I am leaving.

DandelionPatrol

OK, this is complicated

• If 1 of several joint tenants gives notice, it is notice on behalf of them all
• As it is a fixed term tenancy, the tenant [both of you] can leave on the last day of the fixed term without giving notice
• If she stays, the tenancy continues, as a Statutory Periodic Tenancy with both names on it, because you have not given notice
• You can give notice, but this must now be for the end of the first month of the Statutory Periodic Tenancy [although some would argue - as the SPT has not started when you need to give notice - that the earliest you can give notice for is the end of the second month

There would be less uncertainty over this if you knew what the other tenant was planning to do.

Bored

I am waiting for the property manager to reply to my email last night asking about the lack of notice period written in the tenancy agreement. After I see how they respond I will ask her what she plans to do (we are not on good terms currently). My inclination is that she will want to stay.

DandelionPatrol

Art_Contrary wrote: »

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Can the other person sign a new fixed term contract on their own, rather than go onto the joint SPT?

Yes she can

Bored

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Yes she can

But presumably, if she doesn't then I am back on the hook for paying Septembers rent?

DandelionPatrol

Bored wrote: »

But presumably, if she doesn't then I am back on the hook for paying Septembers rent?

Yes you are. The agent is right but for the wrong reasons. Ideally, you need to get the other tenant to accept the idea that she needs to take on a new tenancy agreement. There are complications if you give notice and she does not move out.

G_M

Not quite Dandelion!

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

OK, this is complicated

• If 1 of several joint tenants gives notice, it is notice on behalf of them all. Not during the fixed term. Notice during the fixed term (by one or all joint tenants) has no legal meaning, as previously explained
• As it is a fixed term tenancy, the tenant [both of you] can leave on the last day of the fixed term without giving notice Agreed
• If she stays without creating a new tenancy, the current tenancy continues, as a Statutory Periodic Tenancy with both names on it, Agreed because you have not given notice Any notice given would be irrelevant
• You can give notice, but this must now be for the end of the first month of the Statutory Periodic Tenancy [although some would argue - as the SPT has not started when you need to give notice - that the earliest you can give notice for is the end of the second month Agreed - notice to end the SPT cannot be served before it begins. It begins on the 1st day after the fixed term ends, provided one or more of the joint tenants remain AND if no other tenancy is created
  

There would be less uncertainty over this if you knew what the other tenant was planning to do.

The solution is either:

1) both you you leave on 31 August. Notice is not needed and has no effect if it IS served other than convenience/politeness. The tenancy ends and you (jointly) claim back your deposit

2) your housemate discusses a new tenancy with the LL, with a start date of 1st Sept, and with her sole name on the contract (or herself and someone else jointly if she has a friend in mind). You leave on 31st, and you both jointly reclaim your deposit for the current tenancy (which is ending). She (and friend if applicable) pay a new deposit relating to the new tenancy, which the LL should register in a scheme within 30 days.

Bored

Thanks for all the help so far.

I think the most likely scenario is that I move out on 31st August but flatmate doesn't, without her signing a new tenancy agreement. She can't afford the flat on her own and I doubt she'll find someone else to move in, in the next fortnight.

So assuming that happens, I contact the company on the 1st September, when a SPT has come into effect, and tell them that I am giving them notice, and pay a final amount of rent. After this point, I will not be liable to pay any more?

G_M

Bored wrote: »

Thanks for all the help so far.

I think the most likely scenario is that I move out on 31st August but flatmate doesn't, without her signing a new tenancy agreement. She can't afford the flat on her own and I doubt she'll find someone else to move in, in the next fortnight.

So assuming that happens, I contact the company on the 1st September, when a SPT has come into effect, and tell them that I am giving them notice, and pay a final amount of rent. After this point, I will not be liable to pay any more?

Now you enter contentious waters!!!

1) you cannot give notice before the tenancy starts, so the 1st day you can give valid notice is Sept 1st.

2) your notice must be 'at least a period of the tenancy' (Laine and Mitchell v Cadwallader & Cadwallader (2001))

3) your tenancy periods run 1st to last day of each month

4) from 1st sept to 30th Sept is one day short of a full period, so your notice would have to expire at the end of the following tenancy period (31st Oct).

5) Arguably the case of Crate -v- Miller [1947] allows notice to expire on last or 1st day of the period (so notice could be 1st Sept - 1st Oct), however relying on this is a (legal) gamble.

HappyMJ

Bored wrote: »

Thanks for all the help so far.

I think the most likely scenario is that I move out on 31st August but flatmate doesn't, without her signing a new tenancy agreement. She can't afford the flat on her own and I doubt she'll find someone else to move in, in the next fortnight.

So assuming that happens, I contact the company on the 1st September, when a SPT has come into effect, and tell them that I am giving them notice, and pay a final amount of rent. After this point, I will not be liable to pay any more?

I would not want to be liable for someone else's rent who cannot afford the rent so what I would do on the 31st August is remove everything from the property including everything of your flatmates including the flatmate herself change the locks so your flatmate can't get back in and return the keys (and the lock you just changed) to the landlord ending the tenancy.

You can do that. It's kind of mean...but you can do that or you can be nice and pay her rent for her for September and hand in notice at the same time to end the tenancy for you both. She'll still has to move out and it will still be up to you to make sure she leaves on the last day of the period and if you aren't there are you sure she will. If you did that I'd give notice on the 1st September ending the tenancy on the 30th September. You won't need to pay for October. If however she stays in occupation after 30th September then you've also got a problem so that's why while I was still there I'd get her and her stuff out whilst you can monitor the situation.