Time for a Sugar Tax or VAT on some foods

setmefree2

purch wrote: »

If only that was true.

Then the thousands who develop the disease every year who have never been fat or obese would be in the clear.

I'm one of those thousands, and that is why I know so much about the disease and it's causes.

I hope if you have to have your Gall bladder removed, you don't like me have these awful genes.

I'm sorry you have diabetes. I wish that could have been prevented.

Wouldn't you want other people to be helped not to get diabetes?

beecher2

purch wrote: »

Err....

What I said was that if you are one of the many millions of people who make poor lifestyle choices and become overweight AND you have the wrong genes then you will develop diabetes. If you are one of the vast majority who make those choices and get fat but don't have the genes you won't develop diabetes.

Of course it is not inevitable for those with these genes to develop diabetes, just as it is not inevitable for those with genes that cause cancer to actually develop cancer, and the same will be true for a whole host of diseases.

Fair enough - it was the use of a new paragraph which made it appear as if it was a separate argument.

Unfortunately obesity is a money maker for food companies, slimming agencies and for pharma. I can't see government doing much to challenge the power of these corporations.

Pennywise

setmefree2 wrote: »

If we can’t persuade, nudge and nag people into eating less and exercising more, can higher prices change habits?

As this and the another current thread are proving, it is arguable which foods are good/bad, so do you increase tax on fatty foods, carbs, sugary foods, or all foods? It seems veg=good but fruit=bad, so does that mean VAT on fruit but no VAT on veg?

I'm in favour of VAT on anything that's not in its natural state, i.e. on everything processed, tinned, packeted, etc., but no VAT on fresh fruit & veg, wet fish and raw meat, simply on the basis of not having harmful preservatives/additives, etc., But even then, where do frozen foods come into it - are frozen peas VAT free because they've not had anything added or are they VATable because freezing removes some of their qualities?

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I've started with a quick squiz through Diabetes UK.

They go for the "balanced plate" model of dietary advice, suggesting a mix of fruit & veg, starches, meat/fish/pulses/dairy with warnings against excessive fat, sugar and salt. This seems sensible to me, as I'm personally suspicious of any diet of extremes that demonises a particular food group whether it be fats or carbs, or involves fasting (such as the 5:2), or monotony (cabbage soup, a dismal shake instead of a meal). A little bit of everything in moderation seems to be dismissed as ridiculously dull and old-fashioned now, and certainly not trendy enough for celebs.

They have a specific response to current concerns about carbs for diabetics: https://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/What-we-say/Food-nutrition-lifestyle/Consumption-of-carbohydrate-in-people-with-diabetes/

They state that low carb intake can result in short term weight loss and improved (ie stable) blood glucose for Type 2s. They say there is a lack of evidence of its long term efficacy. They don't define "long term" and I can't find universal agreement on this, but would assume at least five years for the results to be considered significant.

They also comment on the GI of foods, stating that these are not always accurate and that there is no current UK database, but they'll update their position when there is. So they appear to be amenable to updated evidence. Interestingly, they are firmly against "diabetic foods" and all such labelling.

Nick_C

Pennywise wrote: »

But even then, where do frozen foods come into it - are frozen peas VAT free because they've not had anything added or are they VATable because freezing removes some of their qualities?

Frozen vegetables are more nutritious than "fresh". Peas are frozen within four hours of being picked. "Fresh" vegetables bought in a supermarket are likely to be several days old, and will have lost some of their vitamins.

purch

setmefree2 wrote: »

I'm sorry you have diabetes. I wish that could have been prevented.

Wouldn't you want other people to be helped not to get diabetes?

I certainly do, and I agree 100% with what everyone has posted about Food.

What I cannot agree with is the demonising of Diabetics, when they have done no different to many other people.

For myself, I have never felt better.

My HbA1c score on diagnosis was 88, after 3 months it was 32 which is a long way under the cut off level of 43.

I did this by totally ignoring the advice given by the NHS and Diabetes.org and by removing nearly all carbohydrates from my diet.

I have never felt better, and although I was not particularly overweight I have lost 7llbs over the 4 months I have been on this diet.

Cut out the Carbs people................they are killing you !!!!!

CLAPTON

Pennywise wrote: »

As this and the another current thread are proving, it is arguable which foods are good/bad, so do you increase tax on fatty foods, carbs, sugary foods, or all foods? It seems veg=good but fruit=bad, so does that mean VAT on fruit but no VAT on veg?

I'm in favour of VAT on anything that's not in its natural state, i.e. on everything processed, tinned, packeted, etc., but no VAT on fresh fruit & veg, wet fish and raw meat, simply on the basis of not having harmful preservatives/additives, etc., But even then, where do frozen foods come into it - are frozen peas VAT free because they've not had anything added or are they VATable because freezing removes some of their qualities?

one might observe that most 'fresh' fruit and veg has sprayed and genetically modified
that most meat derived from animals that wouldn't survive 10 minutes without human intervention and are stuff with antibiotics
that most fish is 'farmed'

setmefree2

purch wrote: »

Cut out the Carbs people................they are killing you !!!!!

Carbs and sugar - because carbs are of course broken down into a sugar (glucose).

shaggydoo

purch wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that a large majority of people who develop Type 2 Diabetes have done so due to their Lifestyle, but their lifestyles have been no different to millions of other people.

Their lifestyles suck - just like the lifestyles of the millions of smokers who needed to be educated/forced to quit smoking.

People need to be forced to make better lifestyle choices. TBH blaming your genes is unacceptable imho.

missyrichards

purch wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that a large majority of people who develop Type 2 Diabetes have done so due to their Lifestyle, but their lifestyles have been no different to millions of other people.

If you have the genes that mean you will develop Diabetes then you will, if you don't you will just be fat/obese and prone to other issues.

The biggest issue is the cost of treating Diabetics who do/can ot control their blood glucose levels, and that is made worse by the standard NHS treatment which is to precribe Metformin which does little to help, and advise people to eat the "healthy" plate diet, and include plenty of carbohydrates every day.

If they gave proper advice, they would not need to spend billions on year on additional treatment.

Interesting, I read something along these lines recently. My grandfather and my father both have T2 diabetes and I was worried about my own chances of developing it.