So much safer for cyclists to be allowed to go through red!
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Pedestrians should always have right of way on a pedestrian (or zebra) crossing when crossing on a red light - why on earth would it be otherwise.
I don't think cyclists should be allowed to go on red, clearly you then have cyclists who would think they had right of way over the pedestrians - as you have suggested above.
All I'm saying, and haven't suggested otherwise, is that if or when cyclists are permitted in law to cross junctions when traffic lights are on red, it's quite likely that there will be a different dynamic between cyclists and pedestrians at such junctions. Cyclists should take care as they cycle through, and pedestrians might be encouraged to use a little more care than they do while approaching such a junction crossing because they should be aware that cyclists can go through on red. I believe it would improve attitudes between the two groups quite dramatically.
If such a system was to be permitted in this country, I'm sure it would require a new system of traffic lights, to inform cyclists that they can proceed carefully, and also to advise pedestrians of the likelihood of cyclists crossing their intended path.
Shared responsibility for 1st and third party safety - it's what made our roads the safest roads in the world. It would be nice to retrieve some of that ethos.Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
So, if a motorist or cyclist is coming up to a give way line and the road is clear, are you arguing that he should stop for a pedestrian that is walking along the pavement towards the kerb? If it is to be treated as a give way, then the pedestrian needs to accept a little more responsibility for his actions at such a junction.All I'm saying, and haven't suggested otherwise, is that if or when cyclists are permitted in law to cross junctions when traffic lights are on red, it's quite likely that there will be a different dynamic between cyclists and pedestrians at such junctions. Cyclists should take care as they cycle through, and pedestrians might be encouraged to use a little more care than they do while approaching such a junction crossing because they should be aware that cyclists can go through on red. I believe it would improve attitudes between the two groups quite dramatically.
If such a system was to be permitted in this country, I'm sure it would require a new system of traffic lights, to inform cyclists that they can proceed carefully, and also to advise pedestrians of the likelihood of cyclists crossing their intended path.
Shared responsibility for 1st and third party safety - it's what made our roads the safest roads in the world. It would be nice to retrieve some of that ethos.
What about children using those crossings on the way to school?
Should they be responsible for their safety if they cross with the red stop sign on & the green man.
Who is liable if a cyclist ploughs into a child?0 -
Cyclists should take care as they cycle through,
They should, but won't. Just like they should stop for red lights now, but don't.and pedestrians might be encouraged to use a little more care than they do while approaching such a junction crossing because they should be aware that cyclists can go through on red.
Except even with the French rules, the cyclist should still give way to pedestrians crossing, so the responsibility not to hurt someone sits with the cyclist.
But exactly like now, too many cyclists are anti-social idiots and will just plow on ahead at speed irrespective, with the pedestrian having to jump out the way (unless they have a pointy umbrella to hand).0 -
They should, but won't. Just like they should stop for red lights now, but don't.
Except even with the French rules, the cyclist should still give way to pedestrians crossing, so the responsibility not to hurt someone sits with the cyclist.
But exactly like now, too many cyclists are anti-social idiots and will just plow on ahead at speed irrespective, with the pedestrian having to jump out the way (unless they have a pointy umbrella to hand).
What about the "anti socialist" motorists that go through red lights or the "anti socialist" pedestrians that walk out in front of oncoming traffic when it's not safe to do so with the motorists / cyclists having to brake or take evasive action to avoid them?
They shouldn't walk out in front of oncoming traffic but they do.All your base are belong to us.0 -
If such a system was to be permitted in this country, I'm sure it would require a new system of traffic lights, to inform cyclists that they can proceed carefully, and also to advise pedestrians of the likelihood of cyclists crossing their intended path.
Or an extra phase of the lights could be introduced, red for traffic and pedestrians, but green for cyclists.0 -
Retrogamer wrote: »What about the "anti socialist" motorists that go through red lights or the "anti socialist" pedestrians that walk out in front of oncoming traffic when it's not safe to do so with the motorists / cyclists having to brake or take evasive action to avoid them?
They shouldn't walk out in front of oncoming traffic but they do.
Apart from a cyclist trying to divert the blame elsewhere, motorists don't drive through red lights, two minutes after they were red. Lots of anti-social cyclists do.
And just in case cyclists don't realise, it is not illegal for a pedestrian to cross the road whatever the green / red man lights say. You know, unlike the red lights that have the force of law, but anti-social cyclists ignore.0 -
I've nearly been run over a few times by cyclists speeding through red lights. If you're going to be on the road, you should follow the same rules as everyone else, imo.
What do you mean by rules? Almost 100% of motorists break the law by speeding, driving too closely, driving on footpaths to park on it. overtaking too closely etc. A high percentage of motorists illegally go through lights on amber, or drive into the ASL when they shouldn't.
These seem to be the rules that motorists follow.
Is it just cyclists that should obey the law, or do you want all road users to comply? Can you clarify?Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
Keep up lad, we're discussing the benefits of legalising this manoeuvre. It's a theoretical discussion. Too hard? Perhaps you should opt out.And just in case cyclists don't realise, it is not illegal for a pedestrian to cross the road whatever the green / red man lights say. You know, unlike the red lights that have the force of law, but anti-social cyclists ignore.Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
That'd extend the cycle, and restrict flow which wouldnt be popular. That said I'm currently in Switzerland and on certain light controlled junctions they have an early set off for cyclists to allow them to settle on their bikes and move into view / out of danger of HGVs. I quite like this option in the few locations I've seen it.Or an extra phase of the lights could be introduced, red for traffic and pedestrians, but green for cyclists.Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.0 -
Apart from a cyclist trying to divert the blame elsewhere, motorists don't drive through red lights, two minutes after they were red. Lots of anti-social cyclists do.
Right so as we're averting more blame to cyclists in red light running than motorists, i'm assuming how long the light has been red is a more important factor than how safe or clear it is?
You seem to advocate people should obey the laws however i'm a cyclist a pedestrian and a motorist and i see a lot more motorists go through red lights than cyclists.
Right, so just clarify, the fact it's a law is more important than the safety concern so although it's dangerous for people to walk out in front of oncoming traffic you're implying that's not a problem for you because it's legal. Seeing as you jumped straight to it being legal despite me asking you a completely different question with the point being about safety.And just in case cyclists don't realise, it is not illegal for a pedestrian to cross the road whatever the green / red man lights say. You know, unlike the red lights that have the force of law, but anti-social cyclists ignore.
Cars jumping amber / red lights seems to be fine.
Strange way of rationalising things.All your base are belong to us.0
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