WHICH? - Customers Fail to Shield PINs.

James

The latest from WHICH? assumes PINs are being captured at ATM’s, when, in fact probably more PINs are captured at retailers, especially garages

Surely WHICH? formerly the consumers association should be asking questions of the Banking Industry on the consumers behalf:

Why are PIN entry devices in shops and garages not better shielded. Almost anyone or anything can see you entering your PIN. How many mums have a free hand readily available to cover a PIN entry device at a checkout? How do you hold a mobile PIN entry device with one hand, cover it with the other, and then enter your PIN?

Why are safety zone boxes not painted around ALL ATM machines?

Why are card issuers not informing card holders of PIN free Chip and Signature Cards? Consumers can continue to sign (or print) see below. And crooks can’t obtain cash from ATM’s

Carrying a card should be safer than carrying cash.

I want my card to do several things and they are all achievable:

Fraud Prevention: I want to carry a card that will prevent fraud, not attract fraudsters, i.e. scare the fraudsters off. PINS attract fraudsters. ATM’s don’t challenge crooks, and retailers don’t give a hoot who uses a card. As long as it’s verified by a PIN they are guaranteed their money.

Fraud detection: – I want a card, which if used by a fraudster then that fraudster will furnish the retailer with an aid to the fraudsters identification. PINs only prove that the person using the card, genuine, stolen or cloned has knowledge of the PIN.

Fraud Resolution – I want a card that, if used fraudulently easily proves it wasn’t me who used it. Lots of examples on this website about victims of PIN based fraud not being believed they weren't negligent with their PINs.

Here’s a solution:

The first part of the solution is already in situ, preventing crooks using stolen or counterfeit personal information to apply for cards.

The second part, you can do. But it would be much easier with help from those who say YOU can’t keep your PIN secret. I don’t think they can.


Hope this makes readers think and provides a solution to deter credit card fraud, detect fraud and dismiss disputed transaction.

b33r

Chip and pin was purely a money saving venture for the banks (no longer have to store X amount of receipts containing your signiture for Y years) (X * Y was huge).

and also so they can now blame you if you are subject to any fraud, people are shocked now that the banks don't give a flying fudge.

The sooner we goto biometric security ..... I was going to say the better but actually it isn't, the real answer is .... the sooner the criminals find a way round it.

Rafter

James,

Someone seeing you enter a pin is far less risky than someone pinching your chip & signature card and just copying your signature on the back.

In both scenarios someone has to physically steal your card and use it prior to you reporting your card lost or stolen.

Sure there are some cash machines, mainly outside the uk where you can use a cloned card (with no chip) and a stolen pin to make a withdrawl.

If you can prove that you and your card were not outside the UK at that time then no problem.

Your one man crusade against the pin card system is admirable, but the fact is that a pin rather than a signature is a more secure method of payment and reduces losses for both the banking industry and individuals.

Sure there is an issue for individuals who are now more responsible for reporting a card stolen but surely that isn't a bad thing and why should I be responsible fraud committed by people who don't look after their cards properly and treat them as they would cash?

R.

deanos

http://www.chipandspin.co.uk/

Good info on that site

James

Click here for APACS advice - Protect Your PIN.

Have a look at the PIN entry device pictured in the above link.

Note: No shield or guard to prevent observiing eyes or equipment capturing PINs.

How can you hold this type of device in one hand and with the other enter your PIN, sheilding it at the same time?


It's pretty obvious from APACS findings that an awful lot of consumers are having PIN trouble and many cardhodlers can't or don't comply with APACS advice,- don't use the same PIN for two or more cards.

Surely they should be advising these consumers of the avialability of Chip & Signature Cards?

Reminder:

The Banking Code article 12.7.

It is essential that you tell us as soon as you can if you suspect or discover that someone else knows your PIN.

When the card people discover that PIN pads or ATMs have been doctored, and PINs compromised, they should have a duty of care to those who've entered a PIN using these pads or ATM's. Surely they should alert or warn cardholders that they suspect someone may know their PIN? The Canadians manage this.

If they did then this would allow the cardholder to do several things.

Change their PIN immediatly, thus preventing their cloned card being used at a cash point.

If they use the same PIN for all cards - likewise change their PINs.

Card issuers should come clean and give credit cardholders the option of applying for Chip & Signature, thus protecting themselves from PIN libaility issues and preventing crooks cloning their cards with the sole purpose of hitting Cash Machines, or targetting cardholders for their PINs and Cards.


Any thoughts on WHICH? lack of action? These points have been put to them some time ago.

SWINDON:
GANGS of pickpockets are continuing to target the town's elderly people with 50 thefts reported in the last two months alone.

The pickpockets often hang around cash points, watch someone get money out and put the pin in, and then follow them into shops. The public should be wary when getting their money out.
"They target elderly ladies on their own or young mums with their handbags on the prams."

I'd suggest they're capturing the PINs in shops and doing the exact same thing.

Story here. (The very same thing has previously been reported happening in Norfolk).

thumshie

James wrote: »

Surely they should alert or warn cardholders that they suspect someone may know their PIN? The Canadians manage this.

Four months after the possible theft..that'll really give you enough time to change your pin!

Why are card issuers not informing card holders of PIN free Chip and Signature Cards? Consumers can continue to sign (or print) see below. And crooks can’t obtain cash from ATM’s

Does it also stop me getting money out of the ATM???:rolleyes:

James

thumshie wrote: »

Four months after the possible theft..that'll really give you enough time to change your pin!


Does it also stop me getting money out of the ATM???:rolleyes:

Canadians - Sorry I think you missed the point and it's my fault. I should have made myself clear. The new fraud reporting rules in England, Wales & N. Ireland means that victims report fraud to their card issuers and not the police. At least the Canadion Police, late as it maybe warned consumers.

As for getting money out of ATMs, I don't expect there are many who use their credit cards for this purpose?

Re debit cards by all means continue to use PINs at ATMs, but I'd like to see consumers given the option for Debit Card PIN entry only at ATMs, and continue to Sign in Shops.

Another alternative is to carry a Banks Own Savings Card (used with PIN or Signature (in branch only)). YOu can transfer funds in and out when required and these cards can't be used in shops.

Don't forget, you can always use your Chip & Signature Debit Card for Cash Back.

It's all about what's safer and more convenient for YOU.