gross misconduct season ticket loan

Transformers

lookingforthelight wrote: »

It was a dedicated season ticket loan and policy states it should be used to purchase a season ticket. I know I've been stupid.

I was in a dire situation at the time and desperately needed a lump sum to help. The loan is deducted directly from my salary so the company will never lose out. Once I had paid it back that would have been the end of it.

You just don't get it do you?

Of course the company has lost out. Your actions have resulted in direct and indirect costs to the employer.

- loss of interest on the loan amount
- cost of administering the loan both in money and resources
- significant costs involved in investigating your actions
- loss of productivity through lost staff hours whilst your replacement is found. Not to mention the time, effort etc of recruiting.

However you try to dress this up, you committed fraud - you lied to get a loan which you then used to your own advantage.

I hope your current employer does include this in any reference - as a warning to other employers that you can't be trusted.

paupratt

So if I got a job and took £10 out of the till and gave it back a week later this would be ok??

You can't sugar coat it, you stole with the intention of defrauding a company you worked with for 4 years, now you will pay for it as you are going to have to explain to any future employers as to why you have a 4 year gap in your references, that along with paying it all back.

In my opinion the crime is still definitely worse than the punishment, you are extremely lucky they haven't dragged you into courts/got the police involved, expecting them to not sack you??

How were you even smart enough to get a job in such a big company anyway??

Southend1

paupratt wrote: »

So if I got a job and took £10 out of the till and gave it back a week later this would be ok??

You can't sugar coat it, you stole with the intention of defrauding a company you worked with for 4 years, now you will pay for it as you are going to have to explain to any future employers as to why you have a 4 year gap in your references, that along with paying it all back.

In my opinion the crime is still definitely worse than the punishment, you are extremely lucky they haven't dragged you into courts/got the police involved, expecting them to not sack you??

How were you even smart enough to get a job in such a big company anyway??

Let's not get carried away. Many companies are happy to ask employees to pay for things on personal credit cards and reclaim at a later date, costing them in admin and potentially interest too. OP did something silly and wrong but we don't know the full circumstances and I would hope that he is given a fair hearing, which is why he should get in touch with his union rep asap.

FBaby

was in a dire situation at the time and desperately needed a lump sum to help. The loan is deducted directly from my salary so the company will never lose out. Once I had paid it back that would have been the end of it.

I don't think the issue for the company is so much the loss of financial gain but the loss of trust in its employee. That's enough to justify GM. You never know though, if you do an amazing job and won't easily be replaceable, they might be prepared to give you a second chance.

DandelionPatrol

paupratt wrote: »

So if I got a job and took £10 out of the till and gave it back a week later this would be ok??

You can't sugar coat it, you stole with the intention of defrauding a company you worked with for 4 years, now you will pay for it as you are going to have to explain to any future employers as to why you have a 4 year gap in your references, that along with paying it all back.

In my opinion the crime is still definitely worse than the punishment, you are extremely lucky they haven't dragged you into courts/got the police involved, expecting them to not sack you??

How were you even smart enough to get a job in such a big company anyway??

Your accusation of stealing here is unsupportable. OP has no intention of not returning the money within the terms of the Season Ticket Loan.

Undervalued

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Your accusation of stealing here is unsupportable. OP has no intention of not returning the money within the terms of the Season Ticket Loan.

Until fairly recently this was called obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception. It now comes under the wider crime of fraud.

The fact that the OP had no intention of stealing the capital amount does not change that. He was offered the loan for one purpose only. He lied by saying that was why he needed to money and used it for a different purpose. That presumably saved him higher borrowing costs elsewhere and, if so, that saving was fraudulently obtained.

All he can do is apologise and hope that they value his services highly. If so, he may get away with a warning.

stevemLS

Southend1 wrote: »

Let's not get carried away. Many companies are happy to ask employees to pay for things on personal credit cards and reclaim at a later date, costing them in admin and potentially interest too. OP did something silly and wrong but we don't know the full circumstances and I would hope that he is given a fair hearing, which is why he should get in touch with his union rep asap.

This.

This guy has been kicked enough whilst he's down (including by me) to appreciate that the consensus is that he has made a foolish error.

He sounds to have been desperate at the time and none of us know the circumstances.

I think people should back off now.

DandelionPatrol

Undervalued wrote: »

Until fairly recently this was called obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception. It now comes under the wider crime of fraud.

The fact that the OP had no intention of stealing the capital amount does not change that. He was offered the loan for one purpose only. He lied by saying that was why he needed to money and used it for a different purpose. That presumably saved him higher borrowing costs elsewhere and, if so, that saving was fraudulently obtained.

All he can do is apologise and hope that they value his services highly. If so, he may get away with a warning.

So, you agree, it is not stealing. Which was the only point I was making.

Bobalobs

Difficult to comment without knowing the employer however if you are a Civil Servant this is deemed as fraud and definite gross misconduct.


If you have bought a season ticket and then decided to no longer use it you can claim a refund and pay back the outstanding amount as per the usual instalments to my knowledge. However not purchasing a ticket at all implies that the loan was taken out with the sole intent of obtaining an interest free loan.


Sadly notwithstanding any period of service you may have provided - and four years is not a long time when considered against a full career of 37 or more years - the organisation, if you are found guilty will sack you.


Criminal proceedings will not be conducted, you would retain the rights to the small pension you had accrued, although this would not be paid until 65.


You can of course contact the Unions but in an open and shut case such as this would appear to be I doubt there is much they can do to assist other than to ensure due process is followed.


To put this into perspective, I recently observed a civil servant issued with a termination notice because she had defrauded the business of 2 hours of flexi-time (gross misconduct). Financial misconduct is considered far more severe

Bobalobs

Transformers wrote: »

You just don't get it do you?

Of course the company has lost out. Your actions have resulted in direct and indirect costs to the employer.

- loss of interest on the loan amount
- cost of administering the loan both in money and resources
- significant costs involved in investigating your actions
- loss of productivity through lost staff hours whilst your replacement is found. Not to mention the time, effort etc of recruiting.

However you try to dress this up, you committed fraud - you lied to get a loan which you then used to your own advantage.

I hope your current employer does include this in any reference - as a warning to other employers that you can't be trusted.

OMG - I have just joined MSE to see how it worked as I was told the forums were friendly and helpful.


I'm out of here - lasted about 10 minutes before I read this message and then realised actually it's not a place for nice people


Have fun kicking people while they are down, can't say it's a favourite sport of mine