Childcare Cooling Off?

wayne.whoriskey

Hi All,

I had a problem I was seeking advice on and am deeply grateful to everybody who took the time to read, reply and help.

Thank you,

Wayne

FBaby

Which parts did the childminder add after signature? I am not an expert so can't advise, but would think that the terms of the contract would stand as they were before signing. Isn't there a clause as to what happens if the child goes before the end of the 12 months in relation to spreading the payments over 12 months?

Anacrusis

Hi, I'm a childminder and fill out contracts with parents, explaining everything so that (hopefully!) there are no surprises. Have you got a copy of your contract?

I can't advise on how things would stand legally if a contract was filled in without you present, hopefully someone else will be able to help with that aspect.

I've heard that Pacey contracts say that 4 weeks notice must be given, which cannot be in a holiday period. That might be why you'll have fees to pay, even though your daughter isn't due to go to the minder over the next few weeks. .

Generally speaking, some childminders (myself included) give a setlling period during which the contract can be ended with no notice, generally 4 weeks. Looking at the dates, if your contract included this, it might have run out.

Regarding the late fees, alot of minders charge them, because, sadly, some parents are very relaxed about when they pay. Which can lead to bank charges for minders with bills to pay and/or having to refuse care on the doorstep which is awkward for everybody... generally speaking, if fees aren't charged, the late paying continues... £10 a day sounds like a minder who really needs to be paid on time. Childminders don't want to make money out of late payments, they just want to be paid on time.

Mrshaworth2b

So do you think you will be leaving the childminder because of how they have handled the communication regarding the late payment?

Did you not receive a copy of the contract so that you were aware of charges etc?

sulkisu

I'm not clear what you are objecting to. I understand that parts of the contract were completed after it was signed, although presumably your partner agreed to this. Unless she is a vulnerable adult, 'she felt pressured' probably won't carry much weight in court.
However my question is why have you not paid - I don't understand that. You said a health distraction, but once you realised the payment was overdue, I'm wondering why you didn't just pay it instead of this stand off. Perhaps I'm missing the point. Are you querying the way that she calculates her fees - charging for school holidays?
Forgive me for saying this, but asking if the contract is null and void etc, sounds as if you are unhappy with the service for whatever reason and are looking for a way to get out of it and to avoid paying what is owed. Good childminders are hard to find, so I'm guessing that if you were really happy with the service and wanted to retain her services, you would have paid up as soon as you realised that you had effectively messed up and paid late.


It sounds as if the relationship has broken down, so my advice would be to find another childminder (I suspect you want to anyway), however you still need to pay what you owe.
Perhaps a phone call and a adult conversation with the childminder will be far more effective. But the longer you leave it, the less likely you will reach an amicable solution - because while you are officially on her books, but not paying for the place that your child occupies, she is effectively screwed.

Counting_Pennies_2

There seem to be several different issues here.


The first being the contract was completed after signing, so you have no idea what you signed for. Do you have a copy of the blank contract your partner took away on signing?


The second being the payment terms. It is one of the ways childminder's ensure they have a regular income throughout the year, and you get to regulate your payments to her. If you are contracted for specific hours each week she attends this will be one way that payment is agreed. This should have been discussed at the time of arranging the childcare.


The third issue being the fact you haven't paid. If it was any other bill and you hadn't paid, late payment penalties would be applied, such as late payment with credit cards etc. A childminder is a business and without payment she cannot live herself. However this also comes down to the contract issue, is it written in the contract, were you given a copy of the contract?


The fourth issue is your relationship with the childminder. The very fact you have spoken about notice sounds to me that you are looking to leave her. If you have spoken directly with her about leaving there is going to be an element of unease on her part, and lead on to a lack of commitment to yourself over the coming weeks. I would suggest it sounds as if the relationship has broken down and you will need to pay any money that is outstanding if legitimately detailed in the contract with a copy that you had been given, and then I suggest both parents seriously consider the right child care for your child. Remember at all times it is important to build up a good relationship with the child carer and for the setting to feel right and properly agreed contractually before starting.

FBaby

I picked up that the main issue is how is payment made when you pay on the basis of 1/12, but then don't stay 12 months. Do you still pay 1/12 even though no care was provided that month at all?

I am guessing that the contract says yes, but there might be a clause about repayment if indeed the child has overall used less care than the equivalent of total months paid.

I do not understand though why OP would chose not to pay at all and therefore building up daily penalty fees. Were these penalties added after the contract was signed? I would have thought everything was standard and only names/number of hours/costs would have been added to the contract, but maybe not.

Guest101

I'd need to see the contract.

It sounds like the £10 a day is a penalty, and therefore likely unenforceable.

What's the cancellation procedure / duration of the contract?

susancs

It sounds to me that OP only pays for school term time, but this payment is spread over the twelve months. This is the arrangement with a lot of school staff, so that although they do not earn during August, in effect money is kept back so they have some money then. The usual arrangment when they leave would be that they are paid what they have actually worked minus any overpayment our underpayment e.g. in October they have not usually earnt enough to cover the holiday, but August they ahve money accured.

If the contract says one months paid notice then this is what is due to the childminder at her regular rates and you would need to pay any shorfall in your previous months payement (as that was less due to it beign spread over the year). The OP would be charged a lot more by any nursery as they usually require an admin fee, deposit and have a 2-3 month notice clause.

Really the time to negotiate contracts is before they are signed and it really does sound as if OP's partner knew what she was signing even if blank bits were filled in later. A verbal agreement would carry weight in court. As the contract was signed on the childcare providers (traders) premises there is no such thing as a cooling off period in law unless stated on the contract as being in addition to normal rights.

OP, I would sugguest if your OH is cancelling the service, that she give the notice in writing and pays the balance you are due from last month (as this was spread over the 12 months so balance will be higher) and pay the month's notice due which will also be higher as the actual fees due. Maybe if you pay today, you could try to negotiate the fee for your defaulting on payment down. OP, my advice would be to pay ASAP (by drawing out the money on credit card or bank overdraft if you don't have it) as you will be accumulating the late payment fee and if the childminder takes you to small claims court then you may well have these additional costs awarded on top. You may also get a CCJ on your credit record. The childminder may well have free legal representation as part of insurances or membership to a professional body and these may well persue it, but add these on to the costs they look to reclaim from your partner.

Guest101

susancs wrote: »

It sounds to me that OP only pays for school term time, but this payment is spread over the twelve months. This is the arrangement with a lot of school staff, so that although they do not earn during August, in effect money is kept back so they have some money then. The usual arrangment when they leave would be that they are paid what they have actually worked minus any overpayment our underpayment e.g. in October they have not usually earnt enough to cover the holiday, but August they ahve money accured.

If the contract says one months paid notice then this is what is due to the childminder at her regular rates and you would need to pay any shorfall in your previous months payement (as that was less due to it beign spread over the year). The OP would be charged a lot more by any nursery as they usually require an admin fee, deposit and have a 2-3 month notice clause.

Really the time to negotiate contracts is before they are signed and it really does sound as if OP's partner knew what she was signing even if blank bits were filled in later. A verbal agreement would carry weight in court. As the contract was signed on the childcare providers (traders) premises there is no such thing as a cooling off period in law unless stated on the contract as being in addition to normal rights.

OP, I would sugguest if your OH is cancelling the service, that she give the notice in writing and pays the balance you are due from last month (as this was spread over the 12 months so balance will be higher) and pay the month's notice due which will also be higher as the actual fees due. Maybe if you pay today, you could try to negotiate the fee for your defaulting on payment down. OP, my advice would be to pay ASAP (by drawing out the money on credit card or bank overdraft if you don't have it) as you will be accumulating the late payment fee and if the childminder takes you to small claims court then you may well have these additional costs awarded on top. You may also get a CCJ on your credit record. The childminder may well have free legal representation as part of insurances or membership to a professional body and these may well persue it, but add these on to the costs they look to reclaim from your partner.

And now for some actual advice:
1: The late payment fee sounds like a penalty (since only a court/government can impose a penalty it's unlikely to be enforceable)
2: You dont get a CCJ for losing in court, only if you fail to pay as directed by the court.
3: Solicitors costs cannot be added on to the judgment at small claims as these are not necessary. So these wont be added on to the costs.