We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
Dodgy auction - any grounds for complaint?
sly_dog_jonah
Posts: 1,003 Forumite
Last autumn a house and land came up for sale in our village. By the time we had arranged a viewing, the vendors had decided to go take it auction.
It was a probate property that we learned late on in the process was jointly owned by two daughters and a daughter-in-law (who had inherited her share from her husband). One reason why this was discovered so late on was that the legal pack took weeks to materialise. In the end the legal packs were sent out less than a week before the auction.
We sought profession advice from our solicitor to review the legal pack, and he had to contact the vendor's solicitors to get clarification to a number of points. The last of these questions was only answered on the eve of the auction. This professional advice cost us £750 as there was a lot of material to review, but compared with the risk of going into the auction blind we thought this was worth a gamble, even if we were unsuccessful bidders.
On the night of the auction the auction quickly ran away from our budget and we didn't even get a chance to bid ourselves. The final two bidders fought it out and pushed the final price way beyond the guide price. We took it as a learning experience, took the hit and moved on.
It struck us as strange though that the auction result never translated into a updated 'sold price' on nethouseprices and similar sites, despite many months passing. Nor did any planning applications get submitted (it was a do-er upper).
Today we learned that it was the two sisters that won the auction and paid 1/3 of the auction price to the sister-in-law: we checked the title registry tonight and this confirmed it. Apparently the SIL wouldn't sell them her share privately and insisted on going to auction.
At no point in the process did the Estate Agent/Auctioneer disclose that we could be bidding against the existing owners of the property, yet they must have known this right back when the vendors decided to switch to an auction sale process.
Do we have grounds for complaint against the Auctioneer? According to the Property Ombudsman's Auctioneer code of practice I think we might do, but equally they have a responsibility to their client(s) to keep information confidential.
Had we known what we now know about the vendors' apparent feud, we wouldn't have wasted £750 on getting the legal packs checked.
Anyone ever come across a similar situation? Even if no-one has any suggestions, at least it was cathartic to write this down. :beer:
It was a probate property that we learned late on in the process was jointly owned by two daughters and a daughter-in-law (who had inherited her share from her husband). One reason why this was discovered so late on was that the legal pack took weeks to materialise. In the end the legal packs were sent out less than a week before the auction.
We sought profession advice from our solicitor to review the legal pack, and he had to contact the vendor's solicitors to get clarification to a number of points. The last of these questions was only answered on the eve of the auction. This professional advice cost us £750 as there was a lot of material to review, but compared with the risk of going into the auction blind we thought this was worth a gamble, even if we were unsuccessful bidders.
On the night of the auction the auction quickly ran away from our budget and we didn't even get a chance to bid ourselves. The final two bidders fought it out and pushed the final price way beyond the guide price. We took it as a learning experience, took the hit and moved on.
It struck us as strange though that the auction result never translated into a updated 'sold price' on nethouseprices and similar sites, despite many months passing. Nor did any planning applications get submitted (it was a do-er upper).
Today we learned that it was the two sisters that won the auction and paid 1/3 of the auction price to the sister-in-law: we checked the title registry tonight and this confirmed it. Apparently the SIL wouldn't sell them her share privately and insisted on going to auction.
At no point in the process did the Estate Agent/Auctioneer disclose that we could be bidding against the existing owners of the property, yet they must have known this right back when the vendors decided to switch to an auction sale process.
Do we have grounds for complaint against the Auctioneer? According to the Property Ombudsman's Auctioneer code of practice I think we might do, but equally they have a responsibility to their client(s) to keep information confidential.
Had we known what we now know about the vendors' apparent feud, we wouldn't have wasted £750 on getting the legal packs checked.
Anyone ever come across a similar situation? Even if no-one has any suggestions, at least it was cathartic to write this down. :beer:
Cider Country Solar PV generator: 3.7kWp Enfinity system on unshaded SE (-36deg azimuth) & 45deg roof
0
Comments
-
sly_dog_jonah wrote: »At no point in the process did the Estate Agent/Auctioneer disclose that we could be bidding against the existing owners of the property,
There's nothing to say they can't. You were outbid by other parties as well. Sounds more like sour grapes. Auctions do offer bargains but there's the risk of irrecoverable cost as well.0 -
I think it's unlikely that the auctioneer and seller's solicitors all participated in a scam.
It could have been that the 'part owner' had a budget. If the bidding went up to £x, the 'part owner' could afford to buy out the other part owners.
If the bidding went beyond £x, the 'part owner' would have dropped out of the bidding.0 -
-
Our Village,
you need to get in with gossip.
probate/divorce properties these are the sort of things you look out for, much less of an issue in auction as long as you get over reserve, with normal purchase getting multiple sellers to agree is always a risk.
Looks like you underestimated the value significantly...the auction quickly ran away from our budget and we didn't even get a chance to bid ourselves. The final two bidders fought it out and pushed the final price way beyond the guide price
need to watch more homes under the hammer, guide prices are just that, often well under to suck in interest.
what value did your research come up with and what did it sell at?0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »Why a scam? It involved all the parties in considerable cost. Auctions aren't free.
Ummm... so we're agreeing then.0 -
sly_dog_jonah wrote: »Do we have grounds for complaint against the Auctioneer? According to the Property Ombudsman's Auctioneer code of practice I think we might do, but equally they have a responsibility to their client(s) to keep information confidential.
I can't see where the auctioneer has breached any of these obligations. It also sounds like there was at least one other bidder who was also willing to outbid you, so had the two sisters not been at the auction, you'd still have spent £750."Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance" - Confucius0 -
Sounds like you are a house stalker.
You tried, it didn't work, why don't you just move on rather than tie yourself in knots?
as you said in your post, lesson learnt. An auction is always a risk, if it wasn't then most sellers would be using them.
Fwiw this scenario would happen before and I'm sure there is nothing wrong with it. As above there are costs involved and you can bet the sisters would not have wanted to go through all that time, worry and cost themselves.0 -
You are expected to provide a service consistent with fairness, integrity and best practice; and you should not seek business by methods that are oppressive or involve dishonesty, deceit, misrepresentation or harassment. In particular you must not engage in any banned practice, misleading practice or misleading omission as defined in the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
Hardly think it's best practice that the auctioneers didn't disclose the reasons behind the late and incomplete legal packs. Our costs were higher because the solicitor had to chase them repeatedly.
We're not house stalkers and *had* moved on from the disappointment. But we learned yesterday via another EA who advised that the property was coming back on the market again after less than 12 months. According to the EA the losing bidder who pushed the price out of the range of all the other bidders 'didn't have the funds to buy it' which sounds like they may have been a shill for the SIL, and indicates a failure on the auctioneers to vet bidders.
Needless to say we will approach any future auction with suspicion.Cider Country Solar PV generator: 3.7kWp Enfinity system on unshaded SE (-36deg azimuth) & 45deg roof0 -
sly_dog_jonah wrote: »indicates a failure on the auctioneers to vet bidders.
Since when have auctioneers had to "vet" bidders? Did they vet you?0 -
Have spoke to the EA again this morning (we are in negotiations on another property now) and he has filled us in on the background. The 'losing' bidder was a shill for the SIL and in the EA's opinion should have been prevented from bidding. Now the two sisters have fallen out and are putting it back on the market. Needless to say we aren't touching it with a barge pole, especially as they overpaid by around 100k (the other bidders dropped out at around 600k but it went for 705k)Cider Country Solar PV generator: 3.7kWp Enfinity system on unshaded SE (-36deg azimuth) & 45deg roof0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 349.8K Banking & Borrowing
- 252.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453K Spending & Discounts
- 242.7K Work, Benefits & Business
- 619.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.3K Life & Family
- 255.6K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards