UKPS - PCN - "parked whilst not on premises"

DaveyJones

Ah ok ive misunderstood something but thanks for clearing that up.


The more I read everyone elses popla appeals the more I feel im way over my head in this. My English grammer isn't great, my knowledge of the law is near nil..

Umkomaas

My English grammer isn't great

Correct, it's grammar!

But don't worry, we'll help you threw it :rotfl:.

DaveyJones

Hello people.


Ive been reading a lot of popla cases and noticed that people use a reference to other cases with numbers and judge/assessor names etc.


How do I find such cases so I can quote them and use it in my appeal. I have a lot of basics like the sign was strapped to a tree with over hanging branches etc but how do I find something to back it for example - The sign is trapped to a tree with over hanging branches which makes it very difficult if not impossible to notice, the law [enter] states that all signs should be [enter] therefore I belive on these ground etc etc.


I have a lot of ideas but I want to make it stick if someone can point me in the right direction please.

Northlakes

This is a good starter as well as completed cases on Pepipoo.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337

DaveyJones

I replied to the windscreen notice as the keeper and mentioned nothing about who was driving the car when I sent a letter to the PPC 3 weeks in. In the rejection of my appeal letter they kept referring to me as the driver even after stating I am the keeper.


The only thing I can pick out is the NTD has no time or duration. I am a little confused about keeper liability and how I can use this in my popla appeal.


Can I claim no keeper liability even after sending them a letter as the keeper appealing against the NTD ?

DaveyJones

Please can someone give me some advice, I did try to private message some of the people who have replied to this like Umkomaas but a lot of people have their private messages turned off.


The operator states in this case that the driver parked the vehicle and left the premises which was a breech of their contract. Now I wanted to argue that the terms does not say who has to leave the premises in order for a breech. Therefor I am saying that they would need to prove to popla that no one anyone else connected with this vehicle (eg other drivers or keeper) was on site. This site has a shop with 3 stories and customer bathrooms...If they say its the drivers responsibility and the driver left the site then they fully admit the keeper can not be held labile.


Do you think its risky to add this to my popla appeal? I have no said who was driving the car but does me adding the keeper was also on the site within the store implicate the keeper ?


Seems like a tounge twister I know but it seems like a loophole to me, They can't prove who the driver was so they would need to go after the keeper but if the keeper was ALSO on site at the time of the allege breech of contract how can they justify it?

Guys_Dad

You simply need to deny that all of the occupants left the site and some stayed to shop. Demand proof and evidence to the contrary.

Precision

Hey,

To reply to your PM, The POPLA appeal that I have used was re-jigged from an appeal I made a year or so ago. which again, was re-jigged from an appeal authored by user 'CouponMad' based on a Morrisons free carpark appeal.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63857139#Comment_63857139

That thread will contain a link to the original Morrisons appeal which I based mine off.

You are free to use it, along with mine:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H1atbUp7Sw_wLnxBY-8gZfGSkMQQJxtT41bcwMiIJzo/edit?usp=sharing

and change it so it fits the context of your particular case (e.g. exclude the ANPR stuff if your case does not involve reg plate reader cameras), but it's important that you read and understand it, or you may end up looking a bit silly.

The legal arguments, or cite precedent (results of previous judgements / appeals), were from CouponMad's original template, and depending on the context of your ticket, they may or may not be relevant, you will just have to read what is in the appeal, and maybe further into the cited cases, and make a decision.

Alternatively you can search the forum for others peoples initial popla appeals posts (some use a similar template, others use a completely different structure), and look for similarities and differences, it'll help you understand the process!

Yup it's confusing, and yup it takes a LOT of time to do it well.

Read the newbee thread about GPEOL, and make sure you get that 'star' paragraph about 'Bevis' in there, as that will, hopefully, at minimum push for a postponement if popla cannot dismiss the ticket.

Also understand that you may have to author an evidence rebuttal if the company contests your popla appeal; don't worry about this now, but be prepared for the eventuality - if it gets to this stage you may want to get familiar with the BPA code of practice as it usually provides several rebuttal points depending on the quality of their 'evidence pack'

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_-_V4,_Feb_2014.pdf

But for reference, and if your appeal even progresses that far, here is the rebuttal that I produced which you are welcome to use for reference;

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13uLICVZ13MeT7Q_4qzJUIyAn-jtVJUIVeCaaINpI2U8/edit?usp=sharing

but keep in mind that when you get to this point, and when you're looking for examples and templates, what you eventually submit becomes very contextually sensitive. so what you submit would be as permissible as say a boilerplate 5-point popla appeal; you'll have to put the work in to make it your own!

DaveyJones

Hello,


I would just like to give you guys an update. I sent off my POPLA appeal via post which made the process a lot longer. After a few rings and few weeks after I sent off my appeal I got a letter saying my appeal is now in play. The operator UKPS (TR Luckins) were given 28 days to rebut and I 14 days after they rebut. I advise you guys not to do it VIA post as you are not kept upto date and it requires you to constantly ring POPLA to find out whats going on.


The operator rebut my appeal BUT didn't send me a copy and POPLA did not tell me they had done so neither. Today I got a letter saying I won my appeal how ever I think I was lucky as I didn't even have a chance to rebut so it could of went either way.


I wrote a massive essay in my appeal because I was totally screwed over and i was parked legit. Its funny though out of maybe 8 pages this is how i won my appeal:


Reasons for the Assessor's determination:


The operator has submitted photographic evidence of the signage at this site; the photographic evidence of the 'specific parking terms signage' cannot be taken into consideration due to the poor quality of the image, and is not clear enough for me to establish the Terms and Conditions of the car park.


Further four photographic of the signage have also been submitted by the operator which have been taken at a distance and do not allow me to see sufficient detail of the terms and conditions that are displayed.


As such, it is impossible for me to determine what Terms and conditions are in place for this site.


The operator states that the appellant did not meet the terms and conditions at the site but as I am unable to establish what the terms and conditions were, I am unable to establish that the operator issued the parking charge notice correctly, therefore I must allow this appeal.


The appellant has raised other grounds for appeal, however as i have allowed the appeal on this basis i have not considered these.


Yours sincerely


Sharon Kerr










I am really annoyed they did not send me any information, i don't even know if they had the rights to ticket on this land.


How ever i did win and i would like to thank the people who put up with me! Anyone like me who doesn't have a clue about all this stuff i urge you to stick as it as there are many people on the internet that will help you out.






For searching purposes;
UK parking solutions, The premier Club / Shared with GB Electrics, Coventry. DO NOT PAY!

Coupon-mad

Nice one! :T