Assure windows and doors scheme

Jaffa0range

Hi All,

Have been using the forums quite a lot recently to trawl through information on windows and doors for our new house, it's all been very helpful.

Despite the wealth of knowledge/feedback on the forum I'm struggling to find any information on the 'Assure windows and doors Scheme'. After entertaining 5 different window glazing firms quotes over past few weeks, we have finally found a company we would like to go with. He however is not FENSA registered instead uses the 'Assure windows and doors scheme' which according to their website:

'Assure is an official ‘Competent Persons Scheme’ authorised by the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG).'

Essentially sounds like it does the same job as FENSA but I just can't find much feedback on them. Before we go ahead I'd just like the reassurance (no pun intended) that this organisation is legit and worth the paper it's written on.

Any advice would be much appreicated.

Cheers :beer:

cattie

When selling a property you are asked to provide a copy of the FENSA certificate, so I for one would not be happy not to be provided with one when buying new windows.

Furts

Clearly you have doubts about you preferred installer. A solution is to apply for Buildings Regulations, and notify your installer that the work will be scrutinised and signed off. This sign off carries more validity that any FENSA registration.

Equally, if the installer is not happy with this then ask yourself why, then choose another company

Jaffa0range

cattie wrote: »

When selling a property you are asked to provide a copy of the FENSA certificate, so I for one would not be happy not to be provided with one when buying new windows.

assurewindowsanddoors.co[m]/about

FENSA so I've been informed is just ONE of many organisations that offer a self certification scheme window installers can join. 'Assure' is just another one of those organisations, albeit not as well known as FENSA (though they are run by Network VEKA).
After your windows have been installed, they, like FENSA will send you out the relative building compliance certifications and also offer the insurance backed guarantee. They do not have to be FENSA specifically - as far as I'm aware, please correct me if I'm wrong. Comparing the website details - they both seem much of muchness.

Furts wrote: »

Clearly you have doubts about you preferred installer. A solution is to apply for Buildings Regulations, and notify your installer that the work will be scrutinised and signed off. This sign off carries more validity that any FENSA registration.

Equally, if the installer is not happy with this then ask yourself why, then choose another company

On the contrary, my preferred installer has been very impressive in comparison to the x4 other quotes we have had, just so happens he uses Assure rather than FENSA to have send out the building reg certificates & insurance backed guarantee. The assure scheme seems to offer no more or less than a FENSA scheme and as it's run by Network VEKA and he sells their products, I imagine he uses them because he's under the VEKA umbrella.

I don't want to sound defensive in my responses but my concern is less to do with the installer & the well known FENSA scheme, rather if anyone has had to deal with Assure and knows if they do what they say - send out the certs on time are good to deal with regarding insurance/guarantees & complaints.

Furts

Jaffa0range wrote: »

I don't want to sound defensive in my responses but my concern is less to do with the installer & the well known FENSA scheme, rather if anyone has had to deal with Assure and knows if they do what they say - send out the certs on time are good to deal with regarding insurance/guarantees & complaints.

Anybody having windows and doors installed would be prudent to put FENSA or Assure to the back of their mind. In reality they are a part smoke and mirror scheme. The prudent option is Building Regulations which is why I mentioned it.

With regards your comment on who is better such at dealing with complaints this is a red herring. FENSA and Assured are almost worthless, and almost pointless, organisations. They contribute nothing to the consumer except trying to justify their existence in order to protect their jobs and overheads.

Any complaints, enquiries, warranty issues, and insurance should all go through your installer - that is the principle of the Sale Of Goods Act and general consumer rights. Hence FENSA and Assured should have no input in this. They have no teeth, and they cannot enforce anything. Hence toss a coin and take your pick between the two organisations.

Jaffa0range

Furts wrote: »

Anybody having windows and doors installed would be prudent to put FENSA or Assure to the back of their mind. In reality they are a part smoke and mirror scheme. The prudent option is Building Regulations which is why I mentioned it.

With regards your comment on who is better such at dealing with complaints this is a red herring. FENSA and Assured are almost worthless, and almost pointless, organisations. They contribute nothing to the consumer except trying to justify their existence in order to protect their jobs and overheads.

Any complaints, enquiries, warranty issues, and insurance should all go through your installer - that is the principle of the Sale Of Goods Act and general consumer rights. Hence FENSA and Assured should have no input in this. They have no teeth, and they cannot enforce anything. Hence toss a coin and take your pick between the two organisations.

Thanks for your input Furts. I understand a physical inspection of the install is far greater than an installer with an self certification.

In this case, my concern does lye with the installer then. Although impressive, he is semi retired and openly said he's only looking to be working realistically for the next 7 years or so (could be much less, he's a salesman) and when questioned then referred me to the cover via the Assure scheme and contacting Network VEKA if any issues were to arrise after he has ceased trading and they would sort everything out with another installer.

I suppose my next step is to contact both organisations and see how much truth there is to this on the protection / guarantee side, failing that more bleedin' window salesman quotes :mad:

Furts

Jaffa0range wrote: »

T when questioned then referred me to the cover via the Assure scheme and contacting Network VEKA if any issues were to arrise after he has ceased trading and they would sort everything out with another installer.

This sounds an unlikely and risky option. Think it through. You have insurance cover instead of a trading company. How likely is is that the insurance policy will satisfy your requirements? It will probably be full of exclusion clauses and weasle words.

The correct action is to specify stringently, carefully and regularly inspect the work being done both with materials and labour, then be meticulous with a final inspection. Do not rely on a "salesman", nor self certification, nor insurance policies to relieve you of these fundamentals.

I would not bother contacting either organisation - these are trade organisations that do not exist to represent your interests. If all this is outside your comfort zone than a Buildings Regulation Application is a step closer to peace of mind.

I sense that your confidence with your chosen installer has now been knocked. I am not sure whether I should be aplogising for this, or whether my viewpoint has helped.

Jaffa0range

Furts wrote: »

This sounds an unlikely and risky option. Think it through. You have insurance cover instead of a trading company. How likely is is that the insurance policy will satisfy your requirements? It will probably be full of exclusion clauses and weasle words.

The correct action is to specify stringently, carefully and regularly inspect the work being done both with materials and labour, then be meticulous with a final inspection. Do not rely on a "salesman", nor self certification, nor insurance policies to relieve you of these fundamentals.

I would not bother contacting either organisation - these are trade organisations that do not exist to represent your interests. If all this is outside your comfort zone than a Buildings Regulation Application is a step closer to peace of mind.

I sense that your confidence with your chosen installer has now been knocked. I am not sure whether I should be aplogising for this, or whether my viewpoint has helped.

100% Helpful I can assure you. It's been an eye opener - I'm constantly accused of being picky and never trusting anyone, here you can see why. It's not just with this particular installer either, although he has outright lied about the guarantees as you'll see below - he is no different from the 4 different sales guys we've had around all saying the same. The only reason I questioned it to begin with is due to the fact he was retiring before the guarantee's were up.

I'm actually quite glad we have looked into this further, as much as for our own benefit but for the benefit of others as the information revealed was frankly shocking and as you so correctly stated very much smoke and mirrors. It gives the illusion of a fail-safe guarantee when actually you're purchasing nothing more than insurance with said installer. I spent a fair few hours researching windows/installers over the previous weeks and was unaware this was the case at all.

On contact both [Assure & Network VEKA (customer support both in the same office] essentially said that if the installer were to cease trading, then we wouldn't have a leg to stand on with regards to any insurance policy, claim, or issues with the install regardless of how old. As soon as the installer is taken OUT of the equation - you're on your own. Even if the installer is still trading but unresponsive to your concerns, still don't expect any intervention from these organisations to help sort out your problems

The insurance lies with the installer, as it states with most these organisations they are required to offer the insurances to become 'X approved installer'. As you also stated, it seems these are trade body focused organisations that clearly have no interest in aiding the consumer of their installers products if any problems were to arise, trading or not - despite among the lingo on the websites they give you that impression, in the vaguest sense & they both installer & organisation seem to use it to their advantage.

..And then you have the sales guys that promote this massive con that use these organisations to promote something above and beyond in terms of an insurance policy with 10 to 20 year guarantees on this & that, reassuring you that you're protected by all these trade bodies that will sort everything out if anything were to happen to them or problems arise that need to be escalated... In actual fact its not worth the paper it's written on when the buck stops at your installer.

Will be approaching the next wave of installers in a different manner indefinitely. Thanks for all the advice :beer:

Jaffa0range

Will also be contacting these people tomorrow: GGFI - they specifically state they offer insurance backed guarantees if the company ceases trading. Maybe there is some hope yet.

ww.ggfi.org.uk/insurance-backed-guarantees.aspx

Furts

Jaffa0range wrote: »

100% Helpful I can assure you. It's been an eye opener - I'm constantly accused of being picky and never trusting anyone, here you can see why. It's not just with this particular installer either, although he has outright lied about the guarantees as you'll see below - he is no different from the 4 different sales guys we've had around all saying the same. The only reason I questioned it to begin with is due to the fact he was retiring before the guarantee's were up.

I'm actually quite glad we have looked into this further, as much as for our own benefit but for the benefit of others as the information revealed was frankly shocking and as you so correctly stated very much smoke and mirrors. It gives the illusion of a fail-safe guarantee when actually you're purchasing nothing more than insurance with said installer. I spent a fair few hours researching windows/installers over the previous weeks and was unaware this was the case at all.

On contact both [Assure & Network VEKA (customer support both in the same office] essentially said that if the installer were to cease trading, then we wouldn't have a leg to stand on with regards to any insurance policy, claim, or issues with the install regardless of how old. As soon as the installer is taken OUT of the equation - you're on your own. Even if the installer is still trading but unresponsive to your concerns, still don't expect any intervention from these organisations to help sort out your problems

The insurance lies with the installer, as it states with most these organisations they are required to offer the insurances to become 'X approved installer'. As you also stated, it seems these are trade body focused organisations that clearly have no interest in aiding the consumer of their installers products if any problems were to arise, trading or not - despite among the lingo on the websites they give you that impression, in the vaguest sense & they both installer & organisation seem to use it to their advantage.

..And then you have the sales guys that promote this massive con that use these organisations to promote something above and beyond in terms of an insurance policy with 10 to 20 year guarantees on this & that, reassuring you that you're protected by all these trade bodies that will sort everything out if anything were to happen to them or problems arise that need to be escalated... In actual fact its not worth the paper it's written on when the buck stops at your installer.

Will be approaching the next wave of installers in a different manner indefinitely. Thanks for all the advice :beer:

Welcome to the world of double glazing, new soffits, new gutters, cavity wall insulation, external wall insulation, loft insulation, roof coatings, drive coatings, new homes...the list goes on.

The self certification schemes, the approved installer schemes...I will not get on a soapbox... have all been introduced to lower standards and dumb down consumers. You deserve genuine accolades for your research. You are doing due diligence and applying a human skill that has dwindled - this was once called common sense. I give you credit for this.

You are in a tiny minority for doing this, and the salesmen get rich because of the vast majority do not care.

Sgalaxy

As an installer i can confirm fensa , bm trada and assure are all the same and supply you with a compliance of building regs certificate. I have jobs inspected at random once a year to check on my compliance. I am also registered with the dgcos which supplies an insurance backed gaurantee of product and mediation if required and deposit protection if required. The reason most installers do not use building control is the expense of the registration plus installers should be offering the 10 year insurance backed gaurantee which building regs does not supply