Started court action to get refund on faulty goods

Watergirl

Hi, I recently started small claims proceedings against a company and wanted some advice. I'll outline why and what my query is and try to just relay the facts.

My Husband and I recently bought a sink online. When it arrived, it was damaged beyond repair. We immediately took photos and emailed them to the company. They had taken 8 days to deliver to us, despite a guide being 3 days. We appreciated that that was only a guide, but we needed a sink more quickly, so asked for them to pick up the broken one and refund us rather than wait for a replacement.

They ignored the email, so we chased. They said they would pick it up and refund once they were able to put it back into stock (although it was not in a saleable state, but that's up to them). We waited for a date to pick it up and heard nothing, so called them again. They told us it would be delayed due to a problem with their supplier (presuming they mean delivery/pick up people).
After more chasing they said it would be a specific date (confirmed by email). Husband ensured that he didn't take any new work on for the date as he's self employed, so kept that day free to be in the house. The day before he called just to check it was still being picked up and was told no it wasn't as they are having further issues with their supplier. They said they'd call the following week with a new date.

I was annoyed at this point as we cannot get a refund till they pick it up, plus it's taking up space in our house, plus my Husband could have seen clients that day. So I emailed them stating that I'd be putting together a letter before action to them if it wasn't resolved that day, as surely they can get another courier if they are having problems with theirs? It had been almost a month since we received the item by this point.

Hearing nothing and as we were fed up of chasing, and having emails ignored, I sent a LBA and gave them 14 to pick up their sink and give us a refund. We heard nothing. No attempt to pick up. So I started proceedings with MCOL.

I put down that we wanted to claim the cost of the sink, half a day off work for Husband (didn't put full day as he had found out day before and even though couldn't see clients, could still do work from home), admin fee for letters of £10 a letter and storage costs for sink. I looked online at storage costs and found 3 companies, but hard to get accurate idea when storage is usually for much bigger spaces. The admin costs cover time spent as we both run businesses and any time we spend not doing that and instead chasing them in writing or on the phone is money we are not making.

They replied to court papers saying they agree to pay back sink money before they get the item, but not till 27th July. Not sure why that date. Also not sure why they've not paid it before now, causing us all this hassle to get our money back.

I rejected that partial settlement because they still haven't picked up their item and they haven't agreed to the other costs. Plus I've already paid the MCOL fee and not sure I get that back from them with a partial settlement, so we would be out of pocket.

They have now just started calling my Husband, a few times a day to arrange pick up. This started on the day my Mother-in-law passed away and he wasn't in a fit state to speak to them. Plus I think it's best to have things in writing from now on Hence why I'm dealing with it all.
My questions are:

1) Should we have contact with them now that we have started proceedings? I'm worried we will set aside another date away from working and they'll keep letting us down again. I don't want the court to think we are being awkward, but I just don't trust this company.

2) Is the claim for admin and storage costs fair? I don't want to seem unreasonable at all, but we have gone out of our way to accommodate pick up, saying we can make ourselves available at any time and they just either ignore emails/calls/letters or set something up that they don't stick to. When you work for yourself this time wasting really does interfere with work.

I'm heavily pregnant and not particularly well, so I wanted to handle it reasonably and avoid court, but I'm not sure that is possible. We only wanted them to take the broken sink back and refund us. I buy most things online and have never had such issues before.

Sadly, and I don't think that this is something a court would even take notice of, they seem to have a track record of this sort of thing with customers. They operate under a website that was owned by a company that went into liquidation. That is not their limited company name though, and they have several similar plumbing businesses that they run and when a customer complains, they lie and say it's a different company and other such misleading things. They have reviews written by employees and I've been in touch with another disgruntled customer, a plumber, who had a similar experience, but they paid up once she started MCOL. So they don't seem the easiest to deal with.

Thanks for any advice/help.

unholyangel

1) Yes you should continue to try and work things out with them - in fact it may count against you in court if you don't. Court action is supposed to be a last resort to settle a dispute and the courts expect you to make reasonable efforts in resolving it before taking it to court.

2) No. Lost wages are questionable as well depending on what type of work your husband does, whether he actually lost business or just had to schedule it for a different day (as with the latter, he's not actually lost anything quantifiable).

It may seem unfair that you're having to deal with this due to their mistake in the first place, but the law only makes them liable for losses their breach actually caused - and even then you have a statutory duty to mitigate your losses and not simply allow them to mount up or claim arbitrary sums.

You may find once you adjust the expectations of your claim, they're more forthcoming with payment.

Watergirl

Thanks. Would I be better emailing them and getting them to confirm in writing a date for pick up rather than just taking their word for it, as in theory they could keep promising to pick it up and keep letting us down?

Watergirl

Also, let's say they stand by their word of when they will pick it up, and then finally refund the money, I have still wasted a substantial amount of time with calls, emails, letters and then court costs.

With regards to question 2, he does design work so it meant he couldn't go and see any clients or be available to work that day, but yes could have done if another day.

With regards to time wasted by me on letters and starting court procedings, my work is different. I work from home in sales, so any time taken away from me being on the phone or going out to see clients, is potential lost revenue. Although appreciate it will hard to quantify that.

unholyangel

Watergirl wrote: »

Thanks. Would I be better emailing them and getting them to confirm in writing a date for pick up rather than just taking their word for it, as in theory they could keep promising to pick it up and keep letting us down?

Personally I'd write (email or letter) to them giving a list of days/times convenient to you for them to arrange collection. Then request that they tell you in advance which day they're sending someone (so not committing yourself to staying in each and every day listed).

unholyangel

Watergirl wrote: »

Also, let's say they stand by their word of when they will pick it up, and then finally refund the money, I have still wasted a substantial amount of time with calls, emails, letters and then court costs.

With regards to question 2, he does design work so it meant he couldn't go and see any clients or be available to work that day, but yes could have done if another day.

With regards to time wasted by me on letters and starting court procedings, my work is different. I work from home in sales, so any time taken away from me being on the phone or going out to see clients, is potential lost revenue. Although appreciate it will hard to quantify that.

I actually forgot to include in my initial response, you can ask them to pay the court fee's as part of the settlement. This is a loss caused by their breach (providing you only filed after serving them with a letter before action that sets out the problem, the resolution you're looking for, a breakdown of what you were claiming and also a deadline with which to respond - if you haven't sent a letter before action then you may struggle to recoup those costs even if you end up going to court).

Regarding your work....I'm assuming you don't work every waking minute of every single day with no breaks? If i'm wrong in that assumption then you may be able to claim for time spent contacting them. If I'm not wrong in that assumption then its a loss that could have been reasonably avoided.

Watergirl

Yes the LBA detailed all of that.
No I don't work every waking moment thankfully, but surely £10 admin costs isn't unreasonable when I would have been working and therefore making money had I not been writing to them or calling them. I felt that was reasonable.

I contacted them during my standard working hours and wouldn't have had to if they had picked up the item and refunded me. I don't feel the onus should be on me to repeatedly contact them and spend time trying to get them to pick it up and refund me, with no come back. We have had it for 2 months now.

Good idea to write to them with available dates, thanks.

photome

Watergirl wrote: »

Yes the LBA detailed all of that.
No I don't work every waking moment thankfully, but surely £10 admin costs isn't unreasonable when I would have been working and therefore making money had I not been writing to them or calling them. I felt that was reasonable.

I contacted them during my standard working hours and wouldn't have had to if they had picked up the item and refunded me. I don't feel the onus should be on me to repeatedly contact them and spend time trying to get them to pick it up and refund me, with no come back. We have had it for 2 months now.

Good idea to write to them with available dates, thanks.

you could have done that in your lunch hour and not suffered any financial loss

i know you may well say i dont have a lunch hour but you should get the point, which is the same as unholyangels point of not working every hour of the day.

Watergirl

Fair enough. What come back is there for companies that won't refund your money for faulty goods until you go to the hassle of starting small claims procedings against them? People can't always afford to spend money on another item (be it a sink or toilet or whatever) until they get their refund.
Don't think anyone, including them, disputes that it's owed, but what is the sale of goods act for if companies don't abide by it and how can they be held accountable for wasting peoples' time?

Quentin

Now that you have issued the MCOL if they make any payment you can still continue the case until you have been reimbursed in full (ie the money they owe you plus your costs incurred issuing the claim)

unholyangel

Watergirl wrote: »

Fair enough. What come back is there for companies that won't refund your money for faulty goods until you go to the hassle of starting small claims procedings against them? People can't always afford to spend money on another item (be it a sink or toilet or whatever) until they get their refund.
Don't think anyone, including them, disputes that it's owed, but what is the sale of goods act for if companies don't abide by it and how can they be held accountable for wasting peoples' time?

Each case is basically on its own merits and whats "reasonable" in the circumstances (which is why I was asking questions about your husband rescheduling work rather than missing out on it and whether you work every waking minute etc).

I think the problem is that a lot of it can only really be decided by a court. Most disputes arise from a disagreement rather than knowingly breaking the law/trying to rip someone off. Even solicitors will disagree with each other so if the law was that clear, there'd be no need to solicitors or judges! Or the legal profession at all really.

Just a thought (dont think its been asked/mentioned yet) but how did you pay? And what was the price of the sink?