Benefit cuts to hit more than 330,000 children

FBaby

I see, what I don't understand is how a family (working) cannot afford it when per person they will have more money

I think I understand your position. You seem to assume that higher income automatically means higher disposable income. That's the mistake that many people make because it seems logical. The reality though is shocking. It hit me for the first time when I was a single with two very young children, working full-time and earning a good salary hence finding myself in the high tax band and one day, I got talking with a close friend of mine who had found herself to be a single mum of two young children too. It started when she said that she was much better off on benefits than when she was with her husband and working as a receptionist. Then dipping into more financial details, we came to the conclusion that althouh my income was significantly higher, when I had paid all my bills relating to working, and taking into account all the things I had to pay for that she got for free, I was only about £50 better off than her at the end of the month.

That's why you will find that some families despite earning a salary that means that are not entitled to benefits can easily be struggling the same way than those on lower income do, or very often, more so.

Unfortunately, the worse part of it all is that children who get to take part in luxuries that their parents don't have to budget for are learning a very poor lesson about financial management and frankly, I much rather my children learn the value of work and rewards than growing up with a sense of entitlement because they don't know any different. The first will learn to appreciate those luxuries much more than the latter.

bloolagoon

Fatherof2mids wrote: »

I accept the points regarding schemes to better aid inclusion for those children in poverty. I think they should be extended. I would like to think that all children should have the opportunity to partake in all activities that may further there education regardless of the financial situation at home.

I dint think we'll reach concensus on this, as I fail to see your issues with subsidies and financial aid.
Are you unhappy that the kids from workless households get to do these activities, or that you have to pay more because your financially (per person in the household) better off?

The original article pints to the benefit cap and working tax taper rather than any of the tangents I and others have taken it on. Back to those original points, they will hurt children from household of the working poor.

I would much prefer my tax rate increase than to have the limited resources taken from these children.

No it's about who is better off. They are often on the same disposable income as working parents. There's just very little between them and you should be better off working. It's ok saying they are in poverty but sometimes they have more income than ones asked to pay and subsidise.

Fatherof2mids

FBaby wrote: »

I think I understand your position. You seem to assume that higher income automatically means higher disposable income. That's the mistake that many people make because it seems logical. The reality though is shocking. It hit me for the first time when I was a single with two very young children, working full-time and earning a good salary hence finding myself in the high tax band and one day, I got talking with a close friend of mine who had found herself to be a single mum of two young children too. It started when she said that she was much better off on benefits than when she was with her husband and working as a receptionist. Then dipping into more financial details, we came to the conclusion that althouh my income was significantly higher, when I had paid all my bills relating to working, and taking into account all the things I had to pay for that she got for free, I was only about £50 better off than her at the end of the month.

That's why you will find that some families despite earning a salary that means that are not entitled to benefits can easily be struggling the same way than those on lower income do, or very often, more so.

Unfortunately, the worse part of it all is that children who get to take part in luxuries that their parents don't have to budget for are learning a very poor lesson about financial management and frankly, I much rather my children learn the value of work and rewards than growing up with a sense of entitlement because they don't know any different. The first will learn to appreciate those luxuries much more than the latter.

I see, but you were still 50 per month better off. Meaning that you could've put yourself in a position to afford the trip, if as you say all things were taken into it. I understand that it may seem unfair working hard for little difference, but that is not a claiments fault. Also if you find it a struggle to make ends meet, imagine the difficulty those who are 50 per month worse off face.

The poster above mentions several costs that any working poor person may face. The only exception being the boiler, I would suggest that the boiler should be insured, or that the attainment of the house as an asset outweighs the cost of the boiler.

sxcizme3010

I am a mother of two and married. We both work - me part time and husband full time. We are homeowners, own a car. Our combined income is 22000 and we get tax credits of 3000 CB of 1700 so combined 26700 per annum. At the end of the month by the time I pay the mortgage/bills/food/utilities/travel (I work 35m away) we are left with nothing! And I mean nothing - some months we have to borrow money from his parents. We will lose over 2k in tax credits every month so I really dont know how we will cope - Im 21 so I dont qualify for new NMW. I cant pick up extra hours as I have no more childcare available. So what am I to do? I dont have an extravagant lifestyle (before all the stereotypical people pipe up) I dont smoke or drink - my kids are all very well clothed and fed. We do free things to keep them active walks etc... Its WORKING families like mine who will be most affected - but all I hear is you shouldnt have kids if you cant afford them (when I had them we were earning 40k combined) circumstances change as does life and for anybody who disagrees with me please live on what I do for a month and see if you struggle

nannytone_2

sxcizme3010 wrote: »

I am a mother of two and married. We both work - me part time and husband full time. We are homeowners, own a car. Our combined income is 22000 and we get tax credits of 3000 CB of 1700 so combined 26700 per annum. At the end of the month by the time I pay the mortgage/bills/food/utilities/travel (I work 35m away) we are left with nothing! And I mean nothing - some months we have to borrow money from his parents. We will lose over 2k in tax credits every month so I really dont know how we will cope - Im 21 so I dont qualify for new NMW. I cant pick up extra hours as I have no more childcare available. So what am I to do? I dont have an extravagant lifestyle (before all the stereotypical people pipe up) I dont smoke or drink - my kids are all very well clothed and fed. We do free things to keep them active walks etc... Its WORKING families like mine who will be most affected - but all I hear is you shouldnt have kids if you cant afford them (when I had them we were earning 40k combined) circumstances change as does life and for anybody who disagrees with me please live on what I do for a month and see if you struggle

did you factor in tax credits when you decided to have another child?
this budget has hit the working poor hard without a doubt.
surely you realise that raising your children should be your responsibility and not the responsibility of other tax payers?
i was a single parent and worked 50 hours a week to provide for my children on a low wage.. this was before the advent of tax credits.
i dont blame the people that need to claim, but you must see how skewed the system was when the burden of paying for children fell on the state rather than on their parents.

sxcizme3010

nannytone wrote: »

did you factor in tax credits when you decided to have another child?
this budget has hit the working poor hard without a doubt.
surely you realise that raising your children should be your responsibility and not the responsibility of other tax payers?
i was a single parent and worked 50 hours a week to provide for my children on a low wage.. this was before the advent of tax credits.
i dont blame the people that need to claim, but you must see how skewed the system was when the burden of paying for children fell on the state rather than on their parents.

When I had my children I didnt claim tax credits as I we were earning 40k plus. Me and my husband both worked for the same company and unfortunately lost our jobs, we then had t take whatever job we could which was minimum wage.My husband now has 20k job but Im still only doing part time minimum wage - I only claim tax credits now due to NEEDING THEM - as soon as I can get back to the salary I was at (applying for jobs currently) I can afford to pay for childcare and not claim tax credits. Hopefully by April this wont affect me however demonizing anybody who claims benefits is disgusting! We work hard, sacrifice a great deal and sometimes dont see each other for days due to alternate shifts Of course my children are my responsibility. Where do we draw the line? I dont think my tax should be spent on treating smoking related illness? Or lowering inheritance tax or paying pensioners a very generous pension when they already have a private pension and live in a 200000 bungalow with savings too but hey lets pick on parents.... Someones got to be the scapegoat!

pmlindyloo

sxcizme3010 wrote: »

I am a mother of two and married. We both work - me part time and husband full time. We are homeowners, own a car. Our combined income is 22000 and we get tax credits of 3000 CB of 1700 so combined 26700 per annum. At the end of the month by the time I pay the mortgage/bills/food/utilities/travel (I work 35m away) we are left with nothing! And I mean nothing - some months we have to borrow money from his parents. We will lose over 2k in tax credits every month so I really dont know how we will cope - Im 21 so I dont qualify for new NMW. I cant pick up extra hours as I have no more childcare available. So what am I to do? I dont have an extravagant lifestyle (before all the stereotypical people pipe up) I dont smoke or drink - my kids are all very well clothed and fed. We do free things to keep them active walks etc... Its WORKING families like mine who will be most affected - but all I hear is you shouldnt have kids if you cant afford them (when I had them we were earning 40k combined) circumstances change as does life and for anybody who disagrees with me please live on what I do for a month and see if you struggle

I think you mean £2K in tax credits a year

OK, so you are 21 and have two children and a mortgage already but have had some bad luck and your financial circumstances have changed.

No good dwelling on something that you can't change but........

It would be so refreshing if someone would post saying 'please give me some ideas on how to reduce my expenditure and up my income' instead of bemoaning what is going to happen - fair or unfair it is going to happen.

So, I'll start. Post up your expenditure for a month and I'll try and help.

Bogof_Babe

I'm just curious as to how on earth she managed to achieve such a previously high salary by the age of 21, including presumably time out for the birth of two children.

Respect! :T

Missyhenry

sxcizme3010 wrote: »

When I had my children I didnt claim tax credits as I we were earning 40k plus. Me and my husband both worked for the same company and unfortunately lost our jobs, we then had t take whatever job we could which was minimum wage.My husband now has 20k job but Im still only doing part time minimum wage - I only claim tax credits now due to NEEDING THEM - as soon as I can get back to the salary I was at (applying for jobs currently) I can afford to pay for childcare and not claim tax credits. Hopefully by April this wont affect me however demonizing anybody who claims benefits is disgusting! We work hard, sacrifice a great deal and sometimes dont see each other for days due to alternate shifts Of course my children are my responsibility. Where do we draw the line? I dont think my tax should be spent on treating smoking related illness? Or lowering inheritance tax or paying pensioners a very generous pension when they already have a private pension and live in a 200000 bungalow with savings too but hey lets pick on parents.... Someones got to be the scapegoat!

But aren't you struggling because of your debts rather than because you're losing tax credits?

bloolagoon

I think it's fair to say that the poster above is doing all expected at 1.5 x employment with young children. These are the ones that shouldnt have been hit IMO.

It's soul destroying that there are families like that who are no better off than those classed as "vulnerable" who are capable of full employment.