Home buyers report - how bad is it really?

Manchee

We are first time buyers and are hoping we could please get a bit of advice. We have had a offer accepted on a repo property for the full asking price (90k). It is quite an old property (built 1873) so we knew it wouldn't be perfect. We have just had our home buyers report back and firstly it is valued at 86k, and we have had 3's for:

• Chimney stacks: A large number of bricks are spalling and the mortar pointing has eroded and fallen away
• Roof covering: The main roof is covered with slates. The roof is unlined but has been sealed in places inside with mortar (torching).
  Purchasers should clearly be aware of the increasing age of the roof structure. We recommend that it is fully inspected by a qualified roofer and all necessary repairs should be the subject of a quotation. This inspection should be undertaken before your legal commitment to purchase. This report is for a number of reasons:-
  1: There is no fire wall in the loft separating the roof space from that belonging to number five (note - this is next door). This is an essential repair in order to prevent the spread of fire and increase the security of the property.
  2: Extra timber has been added to the front pitch of the roof. This does not, however, appear to be supporting the timber frame and the roofing report should address whether improved support is required.
  3: The general age of the roof is leading to slipping, missing and broken tiles.Consideration may be given to replacement of the roof rather than its repair.
• Main walls: The walls are of solid rendered masonry construction. Internally, the external walls have been dry-lined with plasterboard. The walls contain an engineering brick
  damp-proof course supplemented by an injected chemical damp-proof course. Rendering to the rear of the property appears consistent with other properties within the terrace. There were no signs of significant damage at the time of our visit although deterioration can occur particularly when damp penetration occurs. The covering should be regularly inspected and maintained as necessary. Rendering to the front elevation appears more modern. It is exhibiting cracks, particularly around doors and windows although there is no suspicion that the
  movement to the property is recent, significant or progressive in nature, however, cosmetic repairs are required. Dampness was noted throughout the property. Internal walls have been dry lined
  and despite this, visual signs of dampness could be seen in the lower ground floor area and also within the kitchen.
• Roof structure: The roof space was entered through a hatch in the landing ceiling. The roof is formed with conventional purlins. Areas of concern have been pointed out within the earlier section of this report relating to roofs and a roofing report has been recommended. This should be undertaken before your legal commitment to purchase in order that all costs of repair can be known before exchange of contracts.
• Walls and partitions: The property has mainly solid masonry internal walls. These have been mostly painted. The walls and partitions are in satisfactory order but some are not true and plumb which is not unusual for a property of this age. A number of adverse damp meter readings were found throughout the property as mentioned previously and a report has been recommended
• Floors: The lower ground floor is of solid construction. The upper floors are formed in timber and concrete. Where visible, floors have a mixture of plain concrete, quarry tile and modern timber laminate finishes. Floor coverings restricted close examination of the floor surfaces. The floors are in satisfactory condition with no obvious serious defects are not level which is not unusual for the age of the property. Having regard to the age of the property, the floors are unlikely to contain a damp-proof membrane to stop rising damp. To introduce a damp membrane would be disruptive.
• Fireplaces, chimney breasts and flues: There are no fireplaces in use in the property at the present time. Reports would
  need to be obtained from suitably qualified tradesmen if you intend to reuse these flues. The disused flues are not ventilated and dampness was noted in some areas this would be compounded by the condition of the roof and also the obvious dampness noted from our inspection of the roof space affecting the rear chimney stack in particular.

We also had 3's for water gas and electricity (everythings switched off so they couldn't test) - not so concerned about these as we can get it all tested before moving in.

We are a bit clueless to be honest, other than getting someone in to quote for it all - would the above make you run for the hills?? If not should we be freaking out about any of this (eg. the lack of dividing wall in the loft - is this a massive issue that will stop us getting insurance?) Would you try to renegotiate the price or is that a bit of a no-no for repos?

Thanks for your help (I feel like I need a potato picture for any 9gag readers haha!!)

Edit to add: The searches on this haven't been started yet so if we did pull out we would only lose the cost of the home buyers report

TBeckett100

i wouldnt be happy with an open loft. In theory they could climb over, open your hatch and make their way in.

In theory, you could do the same, so check out to see if they are decent people. If they are poor people, i wouldn't place anything valuable up there.

:rotfl:

Looks like a lot of a s s covering stuff but you should get these items checked out first, though if you are buying a repo, you'd have got a discount. what did the value come back as? was it a mortgage valuation as well, was there a retention?

catterlen

I've no clue about the process for repos, no doubt someone in here can advise better than I can on that.
On the rest of the report, probably if it were me (in the past have bought 1850s mid terrace in a city) the only things I would be bothered about would be:

"Chimney stacks: A large number of bricks are spalling and the mortar pointing has eroded and fallen away I think could be easily fixed but maybe not cheap as would need scaffold, but this seems to me just age not serious
Roof covering: The main roof is covered with slates. The roof is unlined but has been sealed in places inside with mortar (torching).
Purchasers should clearly be aware of the increasing age of the roof structure. We recommend that it is fully inspected by a qualified roofer and all necessary repairs should be the subject of a quotation. This inspection should be undertaken before your legal commitment to purchase. This report is for a number of reasons:-
1: There is no fire wall in the loft separating the roof space from that belonging to number five (note - this is next door). This is an essential repair in order to prevent the spread of fire and increase the security of the property.- this would concern me slightly. I don't know if fire walls were standard or older properties don't have them, but it sounds like some remedial work required and maybe not that cheap or easy- I would probably get someone in to look at this.
2: Extra timber has been added to the front pitch of the roof. This does not, however, appear to be supporting the timber frame and the roofing report should address whether improved support is required.
3: The general age of the roof is leading to slipping, missing and broken tiles.Consideration may be given to replacement of the roof rather than its repair.this seems just a result of the older age of the property maybe?
HOWEVER I am not a surveyor, these would just be things I would bother about as a buyer. The dampness also maybe would be worth looking at, but if the property has been empty, this could be exacerbated, or if built on a hill I.e. Earth built up against a wall.

I guess you would need to see what your mortgage company says based on the valuation- they may impose a restriction or hold back on part of the mortgage pending some extra results.

Possibly you could get a specialist structural survey done for the roof and get a quotemto fix?
Maybe also speak to the surveyor in person and see how concerned he was, as what is on paper may be different to what is a reality, if you see what I mean.

G_M

Most of this is what you'd expect for an property of that age, or is general ****-covering. The roof needs some money.

Manchee wrote: »

• Chimney stacks: A large number of bricks are spalling and the mortar pointing has eroded and fallen away

Re-pointing (replacing cement between bricks) and replacing some damaged bricks is not difficult. The costly part would be if you need scaffolding. Once a decent brickie is up there it's a quick job, depending exactly how much needs doing. Scaffolding is £1000?

• Roof covering: The main roof is covered with slates. The roof is unlined but has been sealed in places inside with mortar (torching).Quite common, though not ideal. Key question: is it weatherproof? Survey does not actually say rain/damp is getting in.
  Purchasers should clearly be aware of the increasing age of the roof structure. We recommend that it is fully inspected by a qualified roofer and all necessary repairs should be the subject of a quotation. This inspection should be undertaken before your legal commitment to purchase. This report is for a number of reasons:-
  1: There is no fire wall in the loft separating the roof space from that belonging to number five (note - this is next door). This is an essential repair in order to prevent the spread of fire and increase the security of the property.

Very common in these types of terrace. Many people live with these though, yes, there is a fire, and security, risk.

• 2: Extra timber has been added to the front pitch of the roof. This does not, however, appear to be supporting the timber frame and the roofing report should address whether improved support is required.

It's not clear what this extra timber is doing, but if it is recent, and adds weight, yes check the existing supports can handle the extra weight. If it's been like that for years without collapsing, I wouldn't worry

• 3: The general age of the roof is leading to slipping, missing and broken tiles.Consideration may be given to replacement of the roof rather than its repair.

A roofer can replace tiles easily. My chap goes up a ladder and replaces a few tiles for £30. If you need scaffolding see comments above!

• Main walls: The walls are of solid rendered masonry construction. Internally, the external walls have been dry-lined with plasterboard. The walls contain an engineering brick
  damp-proof course supplemented by an injected chemical damp-proof course. Rendering to the rear of the property appears consistent with other properties within the terrace. There were no signs of significant damage at the time of our visit so all good!
• although deterioration can occur particularly when damp penetration occurs. The covering should be regularly inspected and maintained as necessary. Rendering to the front elevation appears more modern.

Good

• It is exhibiting cracks, particularly around doors and windows although there is no suspicion that the
  movement to the property is recent, significant or progressive in nature, good
• however, cosmetic repairs are required. Man with trowel fills cracks in render. £50
• Dampness was noted throughout the property. Internal walls have been dry lined
  and despite this, visual signs of dampness could be seen in the lower ground floor area and also within the kitchen.

This needs investigating. Cause of the damp?

* rising through solid floor?
* penetrating through walls because of cracked render?
* damaged dpc?
* internal condensation?
Speak to the surveyor and ask.

• Roof structure: The roof space was entered through a hatch in the landing ceiling. The roof is formed with conventional purlins. Areas of concern have been pointed out within the earlier section of this report relating to roofs and a roofing report has been recommended. This should be undertaken before your legal commitment to purchase in order that all costs of repair can be known before exchange of contracts.

discussed above

• Walls and partitions: The property has mainly solid masonry internal walls. These have been mostly painted. The walls and partitions are in satisfactory order but some are not true and plumb which is not unusual for a property of this age. A number of adverse damp meter readings were found throughout the property as mentioned previously and a report has been recommended

Ah! Now is his reference to damp based just on (very unreliable) meter readings? Or is there actually evidence? Smell? Peeling paint? Mould?

• Floors: The lower ground floor is of solid construction. The upper floors are formed in timber and concrete. Where visible, floors have a mixture of plain concrete, quarry tile and modern timber laminate finishes. Floor coverings restricted close examination of the floor surfaces. The floors are in satisfactory condition with no obvious serious defectsgood stuff! are not level which is not unusual for the age of the property. Having regard to the age of the property, the floors are unlikely to contain a damp-proof membrane to stop rising damp. To introduce a damp membrane would be disruptive.which begs the question: is there evidence that damp is actually rising through the floor? If not, why worry?
  
• Fireplaces, chimney breasts and flues: There are no fireplaces in use in the property at the present time. Reports would
  need to be obtained from suitably qualified tradesmen if you intend to reuse these flues. common sense.The disused flues are not ventilated and dampness was noted in some areas this would be compounded by the condition of the roof and also the obvious dampness noted from our inspection of the roof space affecting the rear chimney stack in particular.

when fixing the chimney brick/pointing, put in ventilation bricks or chimney cap. This will dry out any damp in the chimney


We also had 3's for water gas and electricity (everythings switched off so they couldn't test) - not so concerned about these as we can get it all tested before moving in.standard as not tested.

We are a bit clueless to be honest, other than getting someone in to quote for it all - would the above make you run for the hills?? If not should we be freaking out about any of this (eg. the lack of dividing wall in the loft - is this a massive issue that will stop us getting insurance?) Would you try to renegotiate the price or is that a bit of a no-no for repos?

It's an old house. If you buy an old house you expect it to need maintenance.

The amount of maintenance you are prepared to take on is up to you.

I'd get some quotes for roofing work a) for the chimney and replace slipped tiles and b) for a complete new roof - if you have the money, it might be best to bite the bullet and get the whole thing done plus new roof lining. Then it'll be good for 20 - 40 years. If you patch it up, you'll be replacing more slipped tiles every year or two.

I've never heard of insurers asking about these fire walls, so it's up to you whether to accept that an 1873 house is built this way, or whether you want modern standards of fire safety and modern standards of security.

Investigate whether there genuinely IS damp, and if so, the source.

I doubt a bank will negotiate on price. It's a repo. If you pull out, it might come back on the market allowing you to put in a lower offer next time - or it might go to auction.

jacko74

''Purchasers should be aware of the increasing age of the roof structure''... Thank you for making us aware of that Mr Surveyor, personally I've always struggled to understand the universal law of things get older as time passes.

G_M

jacko74 wrote: »

''Purchasers should be aware of the increasing age of the roof structure''... Thank you for making us aware of that Mr Surveyor, personally I've always struggled to understand the universal law of things get older as time passes.

Not quite a universal law:

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

Chanes

You'd pretty much expect that kind of report from a property that old and unloved over the years? A new roof sounds like a good idea though. If you like it enough spend it, but it could turn into a money pit. I speak from owning an old Victorian terrace and that had a solid floor in the outrigger with no membrane but the damp floor was sealed and was bone dry years later when we sold it.

Rambosmum

You need a new roof and have damp. When the roof is replaced either have the chimney removed (if it's just for your property and you wont need it) or ask next door to go halves on repairs if it's a shared chimney. As you'll already have scaffolding up for the roof it'll be cheaper. You could get the loft was done at the same time- the gap wall issue is fairly common in older terrace houses in particular.

Personally, with a house of that age I'd have got a full structural survey but it still wouldn't have addressed all the issues.

The damp may be harder to deal with due to the solid floors and render.

Mossfarr

Hi Manchee,

I've bought a couple of repossessions and I have always negotiated the price. I definitely would not pay more than the valuation because you will have to stump up the £4k price difference yourself plus the cost of essential repairs.
Do you have a budget set aside for renovation? - if not, and the price is already stretching your finances, then you probably should walk away.
If you still want to buy it I would send a copy of your buyers report to to the vendors and make a significantly lower offer.
mossfarr

jacko74

G_M wrote: »

Not quite a universal law:

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

There always to be one !!!!!! doesn't there!:p

Manchee

Just wanted to say thank you for all the replies, we put in a revised offer to match the valuation, just waiting to hear back now.