Fuel Direct - It's my money!!!

Snowedunder

I am on Pension Credit and have been on fuel direct for many years. About 3 years ago I had finally paid off a large electricity bill and the weekly amount was lowered by DSS.


Since then I have accrued a large credit balance and decided I wished to switch to paying by Direct Debit which meant I would pay a smaller weekly sum as calculated by Southern Electric.


During the process of setting up the DD it was confirmed that I would be credited the credit balance plus any amount paid to them from DSS during the 'switch over'.


For some reason the switch over was not advised to DSS by SE for 4 weeks during which time a further 4 weeks' of deductions were made at source from my Pension Credit.
At the time of setting up the DD I explained that I would need to be in receipt of the 'deductions' to be in a position to pay the first DD, and this was agreed.
However, I have now received an e-mail from SE to say they have contacted fuel direct who say I CANNOT have that money back!!!!
Is this correct, it is my pension credit money, I am not in debt to SE so what can I do, I do not want to go through the trouble of stopping the DD and then setting it up again.
Can Pension Credit really do this to me, and if so, why?

Nada666

If you had a large credit balance and it will/has been repaid I am not sure that there is that big a problem. The money has been credited to your fuel account.

It was forseeable and likely that there would be a few weeks overlap. If you have decided to pay by Direct Debit then you will have to make provision for such variances in the first place - you really should have that money available.

Certainly no money is due back from Pension Credit. You now have to negotiate with your supplier as to a new Debit instalment size or another return of your balance.

Snowedunder

I get your point, but my point is this, when I set up the direct debit it was agreed that any overlapping monies would be refunded. This was so that I would have 4 weeks of 'increased' benefits (no deductions for fuel direct) so that I could met the Direct Debit. Unfortunately, my finances are that finely tuned that I cannot have 'spare' money just floating around - I am sure there must be many others who understand that situation.


The situation I find myself in - is that I have now in effect paid a double amount for 4 weeks, ie the money deducted by fuel direct and the first DD taken. Before setting up the DD I specifically made sure that SE understood this, and they did - but they are now telling me that for some reason they approached fuel direct for 'permission' to refund me my own money and fuel direct refused! I am not asking for 'money back from Pension Credit' I am asking for that part of my Pension Credit that was paid to Fuel Direct to be refunded to me by SE who are willing to do so as they now have the DD set up, but Fuel Direct are refusing 'permission' to SE to make the refund! I have already 'negotiated with SE for a return of balance as you state I should do, and this is the point of my post, they are willing to make the refund but are being told by Pension Credit they cannot, and I just do not understand that!

System

Fuel Direct now known as Third Party Deductions. Have a read of para 5 of EDF's FAQS:

Other questions that you might have on Third party deductions.

1. Are you able to take more than £3.70 per week from my benefits for any outstanding balance?
No, this is a set amount which is fixed by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). We are only able to adjust the payments for your ongoing consumption.
2. Do you offer energy efficiency advice when I pay by third party deductions?
We will provide you with an energy efficiency survey which you can complete and return free of charge. You will then receive a report showing energy saving tips. We also provide a freephone energy efficiency number where an experienced and dedicated team will speak to you about energy efficiency in your home. The number is 0800 096 9966†.
3. What happens when the arrears are paid back through my benefits?
We will discuss ongoing alternative payment plan types and the best method of payment for you.
4. How often do you review my payments, to ensure I am paying the right weekly amounts?
Our third party deductions team review your account every 12 months and will ensure the payments are set at the right level. We review your current consumption to ensure that you are paying the correct amount.
5. If my account is in credit can I have it refunded?
As long as the account has been billed to an up to date actual meter reading you can have the credit refunded, minus any payments towards your next bill. This will be refunded directly to your bank account via the DWP.

Snowedunder

Hengus wrote: »

Fuel Direct now known as Third Party Deductions. Have a read of para 5 of EDF's FAQS:

Other questions that you might have on Third party deductions.

1. Are you able to take more than £3.70 per week from my benefits for any outstanding balance?
No, this is a set amount which is fixed by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). We are only able to adjust the payments for your ongoing consumption.
2. Do you offer energy efficiency advice when I pay by third party deductions?
We will provide you with an energy efficiency survey which you can complete and return free of charge. You will then receive a report showing energy saving tips. We also provide a freephone energy efficiency number where an experienced and dedicated team will speak to you about energy efficiency in your home. The number is 0800 096 9966†.
3. What happens when the arrears are paid back through my benefits?
We will discuss ongoing alternative payment plan types and the best method of payment for you.
4. How often do you review my payments, to ensure I am paying the right weekly amounts?
Our third party deductions team review your account every 12 months and will ensure the payments are set at the right level. We review your current consumption to ensure that you are paying the correct amount.
5. If my account is in credit can I have it refunded?
As long as the account has been billed to an up to date actual meter reading you can have the credit refunded, minus any payments towards your next bill. This will be refunded directly to your bank account via the DWP.

OK - So for years I have had £30 per week deducted to pay of the outstanding bill which was £1000. But, I queried that, and after 2 years, it was discovered that my bill was nowhere near that amount and I received a refund.


That was 3 years' ago, and they said that on my level of use, they needed to stop £25 per week, and that has happened over the 3 years, with my bill never amounting to more than £300 per quarter. I had two refunds but only reduced my deduction to £22.75 at which level it has stayed.


Hence the reason I knew I would be better off paying by Direct Debit and Southern Electric agreed. They set up the first date for my Direct Debit, my meter was read, and as I was in credit they agreed to refund me.


Now this refund has been stopped by Pension Credit and I can see no reason for this, neither can Southern Electric. They are quite happy to do this so as this money was part of my Pension Credit, why can I not have it back. I was relying on this to make the first DD. Now I have to pay twice, the money they are refusing to refund leaves my account in credit by more than the amount of the monthly DD plus I have to pay the DD.


I am not asking for anything more than the amount I have already paid out of my allowance, and I cannot see why Pension Credit have done this. I have tried all day to reach them by 'phone but it is just useless, last count, 35 minutes and still on hold.



This means in effect that over the first 4 weeks, I have the money still deducted from my Pension Credit, and I have to put the money by for the DD. I am sure there are others out there that will understand how hard that is going to be when all I have is State Pension and Pension Credit.


It just seems so unfair, I was trying to save a little money by paying by DD (£40 ) per year, and I wish I had never bothered seeking advice with reducing energy expenses.

System

I am out of my comfort zone here but surely you have 3 options:

1. Ask for the credit you are owed to be repaid via the DWP. ( it would seem that the rules do not allow this to be repaid to you by the supplier )

2. If there is a credit balance on your account, then ask for the start of the DD payments to be delayed.

3. Pay a reduced monthly DD amount which takes your credit in to account.

undaunted

It seems to me that all that is required here is for the supplier to adjust the DD start date on their system - far quicker & easier for all of you than chasing refunds to then send back to them anyway.


If you have a large credit why do you need to set up a direct debit just yet anyway - either let the credit run down before starting the DD or ask for it to be returned to you.

Snowedunder

Thanks for the replies.


Fuel Direct will not stop taking their deductions until 4 weeks prior to the start date of the Direct Debit, so I am in a 'catch 22' situation.


Southern Electric will not allow the DD date to be 'set back' because of the above.


If I cancel the DD via my bank, then SE will automatically tell Fuel Direct to continue their deductions at source.


Southern Electric are telling me that Fuel Direct are 'refusing them permission' to refund the credit I already have amassed.


It would therefore appear my only alternative Is to cancel the DD, revert to fuel direct and let Southern Electric continue to have a credit on my account. Hence the heading on this thread - it is MY money why can I not get it back? Is this even lawful?

System

Snowedunder wrote: »

It would therefore appear my only alternative Is to cancel the DD, revert to fuel direct and let Southern Electric continue to have a credit on my account. Hence the heading on this thread - it is MY money why can I not get it back? Is this even lawful?

It would seem, as I indicated earlier, that as the DWP pays the money out then any credit has to come back to you via the DWP. Rather than agonise about it, I suggest that you go and talk to your local Citizen's Advice. They may be able to offer you help to resolve this issue.

undaunted

See License condition 27.16. Other than perhaps refusing to have the credit sent back to the dwp I fail to see that either they have any legal right whatsoever or indeed would even want to barr a supplier from refunding a credit balance direct to that customer, irrespective of how it accrued. I suggest you ask your supplier for a written explanation - as you are entitled to under the above condition - if they continue to refuse you.

https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk//Content/Documents/Electricity%20Supply%20Standard%20Licence%20Conditions%20Consolidated%20-%20Current%20Version.pdf

System

I think that you will find that where Third Party Deductions are involved, there is a tri-lateral agreement on overpayments between the DWP, the Suppliers and Ofgem:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/57516/5968-jointstatementintent11feb04.pdf