Parking Eye PCN

dharle

Hi all,

I was after some advice please.

I have received a PCN from Parking Eye today for overstaying at a shopping centre car park on a Sunday. The signs state that the maximum free stay authorised is 4 hours, and the PCN has stated that my car was there for 6.5 hours (until 7.30pm). It has a photo of both the front and rear of my car. There is no facility to buy a ticket for periods longer than this.

I received the PCN of £85 today (16/7/15) but it is written that this will be discounted to £50 if I pay by 15/7/15. So unless I get into a time machine, this is not possible!

I hold my hands up and acknowledge that I probably stayed beyond 4 hours (I didn't realise it at the time and there's no way for me to verify this). However, the largest shop in the shopping centre is a Tesco Extra, and that shuts at 5pm on a Sunday. Therefore I'm not sure what loss I was causing by overstaying especially when this is a MASSIVE outdoor car park where space is not at a premium. Indeed when I pass by it in the morning on the bus there are plenty of cars parked there which I can only imagine park there overnight.

I've been reading about the recent Beavis case and it's really confused me as it seems that Parking Eye won its case and that £85+ is actually reasonable. Should I just pay the invoice?

Many thanks

Redx

no , read the newbies sticky thread and appeal it to PE on their site using the template "as is"

if they dont cancel , use the popla code with a legal argument appeal to popla

the Beavis case isnt over, its at the Supreme Court in London in a weeks time, with a judgment expected before xmas

so that saga isnt over by a long chalk !

System

Did you receive it within 14 days of the parking event. If not, they cannot hold the keeper liable. You may have a win here

The_Deep

In the Beavis case, PE were paying the landlords £1,000 a week to farm the car park. It could be argued therefore that they had a financial interest in the site, and that the charge was commercially justified.

Also, Mr Beavis ignored all PE's letters.

bazster

Dates could be important here. If PE has denied you the discounted rate by screwing up its dates then they are in breach of the BPA Code of Practice and a complaint to the BPA might get this cancelled.

Did you shop on the site and have you got receipts to prove it? Sending copies of these with your appeal to PE might get it cancelled. Plus complain to whatever shops you used, insist on seeing the manager.

And read the Newbies thread for how to appeal.

Do all these things in parallel, don't let the time for appealing run out!

And yes, they are trying to bamboozle you with Beavis. PE has in-house solicitors who are trying to mislead you if they have failed to inform you that Beavis is under appeal to the Supreme Court. A complaint to the Solicitors Regulation Authority is indicated, about PE's in-house legal department and their head of legal, solicitor Rachel Ledson.

dharle

Hi all

Thank you for your replies.

The date of the incident was 28/6/15. The date on the PCN is 10/7/15 but I only received it yesterday 16/7/15. Unfortunately I don't know how I can prove this - there is no Royal Mail post mark on the brown envelope I received through the post.

I popped into Tesco on my way to work this morning (they used to be the landlord but sold their interest to British Land). Their Customer Service just told me to see the security team of the shopping centre. I was hoping they might be a bit sympathetic. Unfortunately they weren't open at that time and the security guard I spoke to basically said "tough luck" - that it's clearly stated that you will get a ticket if you stay beyond 4 hours (which I have to concede is true!).

I also tweeted the shopping centre saying I was unhappy and who to contact but all they did was give me the phone number for Parking Eye!

My argument at the moment is that due to Sunday trading laws, that the latest a shop can open is 5pm. Therefore there should technically be no cars in the car park because it is "for customers only" and all the shops are shut. I therefore cannot be causing any harm/loss if the car park would not be in a position to make any revenue in the first place. Does that make sense?

Redx

it makes sense but wont cut any ice as its private land (owned by British Land) and they can impose any restrictions they like , its an unregulated industry

in essence , they grant permission to park for a certain number of hours between this time, and this time , and any other time its trespass on private land

what you cannot do is use an argument like that in the legal sense

they could allow parking 24/7 if they wanted to , irrespective of any trading laws , the sunday trading laws dont cover parking , parking is just a concession , or not , depending on the time of day and the rules on the signs

if a policeman pulls you over for speeding, you cannot say its invalid because he hasnt pulled over the other nine drivers who were speeding as well

in other words, monkey see , monkey do is no legal defence

Castle

dharle wrote: »

Hi all

Thank you for your replies.

The date of the incident was 28/6/15. The date on the PCN is 10/7/15 but I only received it yesterday 16/7/15. Unfortunately I don't know how I can prove this - there is no Royal Mail post mark on the brown envelope I received through the post.

Date of receipt is deemed to be 2 working days after the date of issue; in your case this would be Tuesday 14th July, which is more than the 14 days allowed by POFA2012. Therefore, only the driver is liable.

The_Deep

You do not have to prove the date on which you received it, they must prove that it arrived in time, i.e. by you signing for it.

dharle

Castle wrote: »

Date of receipt is deemed to be 2 working days after the date of issue; in your case this would be Tuesday 14th July, which is more than the 14 days allowed by POFA2012. Therefore, only the driver is liable.

Yes, I've just looked at POFA 2012 and it states:

(4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Does this means that I should have received the PCN by Sunday 12 July (28 June + 14 days). If the date on the PCN is Friday 10 July, then as Castle states date of receipt would imply two working days after this - Tuesday 14 July.

Does this mean that I am not liable to pay? (by the way the PCN had my name and address which I assume they got from the DVLA).

Redx

dharle wrote: »

Yes, I've just looked at POFA 2012 and it states:

(4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Does this means that I should have received the PCN by Sunday 12 July (28 June + 14 days). If the date on the PCN is Friday 10 July, then as Castle states date of receipt would imply two working days after this - Tuesday 14 July.

Does this mean that I am not liable to pay?

(by the way the PCN had my name and address which I assume they got from the DVLA).

no it does not mean that, it means they cannot hold the RK liable for the charge and so is an extra defence point

this is a bit like a court of law, they allege incidents took place blah blah

you defend under the law by saying that the law does not apply due to..... blah blah

cleared on a technicality

you are looking at this from the angle of who has to pay, in theory THE DRIVER has to pay if the persons making the charge can make it stick

this DRIVER may , or may not, have been the RK

so if they want to make the RK pay, they have to jump through the hoops of POFA 2012 to make it stick , you can defend yourself on the technicality from the RK point of view (forgetting who the driver may be)

if they knew who the driver was, then POFA 2012 is irrelevant

at the moment this is about liability, not payment , payment comes a long way down the road, or not , same as a criminal gets sentenced at the end of the trial, where he or she is made to pay - or the case is thrown out and he/she is acquitted

if this was a postal NTK, then yes they got the RK details from the DVLA, that goes without saying , its their first point of call under their KADOE contract