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UREGENT Advice Needed - Reasonable Notice Clause
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Sharleen__82
Posts: 34 Forumite
Hi All,
My colleagues and I are in urgent need of advice. I will explain as succinctly as I can...
I work for a London College and have been made redundant. We had a 45 day consultation period, followed by interviews and notification of outcomes. Today we had meetings individually to get our notification of termination letters and calculation of redundancy.
As it is a college wide redundancy, they want all affected staff to leave the business by 31st July, and notice will be paid in lieu.
We all have contracts that clearly stipulate a 3 month notice period. We have been told today that we will only receive payment for 4 weeks notice.
Our contracts clearly state ' three months notice in writing'. What they are using as their 'clause' is a paragraph in the contract that says 'in event that your employment is terminated by reason of redundancy, you will be entitled to a reasonable notice period which is based on your length of service with the college.'
Since the consultation began in April, we have been told verbally by HR and managers that we will be paid three months notice. This is the basis on which everyone has been planning and budgeting their futures in the case of redundancy.
Can they get away with paying us only 4 weeks? This 'reasonable notice' is so ambiguous, and it has not been mentioned anywhere else throughout the duration of the consultation or redundancy process. Even our manager (Head of Department, Senior Management) admitted that she only found out about this half an hour before the meeting, and she has been telling us all 3 months previously to this.
Some other points to consider are;
We spoke to ACAS today and they said that they have to pay us the full 3 months notice. They said if they do not they will assist us with legal proceedings.
They have advised us that we are entitled to the longer of any statutory or contractual notice under the Employment Rights Act (Section 86).
After doing some of my own research I have found an employment law case that stated that in a contract there are 'express terms' and 'implied terms'. The three month notice period is an express term, and the 'reasonable notice' is an implied term. It said that an implied term cannot contradict an express term.
Also, we have the names of other members of staff that have been made redundant within this redundancy consultation and been paid the full 3 months notice. We are currently amassing as many names as we can of cases where this has happened.
Although this may not be usable evidence, a group of 4 of us went to HR on Friday and asked to see the HR consultant to ask some questions. We were asking about redeployment and next steps etc. He basically said to us that we were entitled to 3 months notice, payment of any outstanding annual leave, and that the chance of redeployment was tiny. He said that this was a good deal and in his own words said 'take it and run'. However today he said that he knew about this clause since April. But he or no one in HR informed us or anyone else in the college that we would only be paid 4 weeks notice.
When looking up about valid contracts in English Law, I have found that in order for a term to be incorporated and therefore valid, it must fulfil 3 requirements. The third requirement being that 'reasonable steps' must be taken by the party that forms the term to bring it to the attention of the other party'. In our case this has not happened, and in fact has been hidden from us purposely since April, and we have constantly been told we will be paid 3 months notice.
Tonight I am researching and finding out as much as I can.
Can anyone give me any advice, suggestions or angles for us to fight this?
If you know of any cases, precedents or advice of what to do I would be so grateful.
I have worked there for 3 years and 11 months. I am currently 3 months pregnant and the stress and worry is something I really could do without right now.
Please, please advise. Sorry for the long post.
Many Thanks,
Sharleen
My colleagues and I are in urgent need of advice. I will explain as succinctly as I can...
I work for a London College and have been made redundant. We had a 45 day consultation period, followed by interviews and notification of outcomes. Today we had meetings individually to get our notification of termination letters and calculation of redundancy.
As it is a college wide redundancy, they want all affected staff to leave the business by 31st July, and notice will be paid in lieu.
We all have contracts that clearly stipulate a 3 month notice period. We have been told today that we will only receive payment for 4 weeks notice.
Our contracts clearly state ' three months notice in writing'. What they are using as their 'clause' is a paragraph in the contract that says 'in event that your employment is terminated by reason of redundancy, you will be entitled to a reasonable notice period which is based on your length of service with the college.'
Since the consultation began in April, we have been told verbally by HR and managers that we will be paid three months notice. This is the basis on which everyone has been planning and budgeting their futures in the case of redundancy.
Can they get away with paying us only 4 weeks? This 'reasonable notice' is so ambiguous, and it has not been mentioned anywhere else throughout the duration of the consultation or redundancy process. Even our manager (Head of Department, Senior Management) admitted that she only found out about this half an hour before the meeting, and she has been telling us all 3 months previously to this.
Some other points to consider are;
We spoke to ACAS today and they said that they have to pay us the full 3 months notice. They said if they do not they will assist us with legal proceedings.
They have advised us that we are entitled to the longer of any statutory or contractual notice under the Employment Rights Act (Section 86).
After doing some of my own research I have found an employment law case that stated that in a contract there are 'express terms' and 'implied terms'. The three month notice period is an express term, and the 'reasonable notice' is an implied term. It said that an implied term cannot contradict an express term.
Also, we have the names of other members of staff that have been made redundant within this redundancy consultation and been paid the full 3 months notice. We are currently amassing as many names as we can of cases where this has happened.
Although this may not be usable evidence, a group of 4 of us went to HR on Friday and asked to see the HR consultant to ask some questions. We were asking about redeployment and next steps etc. He basically said to us that we were entitled to 3 months notice, payment of any outstanding annual leave, and that the chance of redeployment was tiny. He said that this was a good deal and in his own words said 'take it and run'. However today he said that he knew about this clause since April. But he or no one in HR informed us or anyone else in the college that we would only be paid 4 weeks notice.
When looking up about valid contracts in English Law, I have found that in order for a term to be incorporated and therefore valid, it must fulfil 3 requirements. The third requirement being that 'reasonable steps' must be taken by the party that forms the term to bring it to the attention of the other party'. In our case this has not happened, and in fact has been hidden from us purposely since April, and we have constantly been told we will be paid 3 months notice.
Tonight I am researching and finding out as much as I can.
Can anyone give me any advice, suggestions or angles for us to fight this?
If you know of any cases, precedents or advice of what to do I would be so grateful.
I have worked there for 3 years and 11 months. I am currently 3 months pregnant and the stress and worry is something I really could do without right now.
Please, please advise. Sorry for the long post.
Many Thanks,
Sharleen
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Comments
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I would say contact the union, but they are probably too busy concerning themselves with what is going on in Palestine than trivial matters like their paid up members losing their jobs and getting shafted over.I do Contracts, all day every day.0
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What are the words around the "3 months" in your contact?
Are you required to give them 3 months and it Is silent on employer to you so everyone assumed it was a mutual 3 months?
I think some broader quoting may help people help you.Debt at highest: £8k. Debt Free 31/12/2009. Original MFD May 2036, MF Dec 2018.0 -
My contracts reads extactly...
21.3 After completion of your probationary period, the College may terminate your employment by giving you notice in writing as follows:
Three months notice in writing.
In regards to notice we have to give if leaving it reads...
21.2 You may terminate your employment by giving the College Human Resources Department appropriate notice which is based on your grade, as set out below:
Three months notice in writing.
If you need any further quotes or anything please let me know0 -
Marktheshark wrote: »I would say contact the union, but they are probably too busy concerning themselves with what is going on in Palestine than trivial matters like their paid up members losing their jobs and getting shafted over.
This assumes they ae members of a union. If they were then I doubt the poster would be consulting ACAS or posting here.
Making such political comments on a thread designed to help people is inappropriate.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Sharleen__82 wrote: »My contracts reads extactly...
21.3 After completion of your probationary period, the College may terminate your employment by giving you notice in writing as follows:
Three months notice in writing.
In regards to notice we have to give if leaving it reads...
21.2 You may terminate your employment by giving the College Human Resources Department appropriate notice which is based on your grade, as set out below:
Three months notice in writing.
If you need any further quotes or anything please let me know
Sharleen, I think that you are doing the right thing and getting good advice from ACAS. I would ask their advice again, but suggest that the next step is for you all to write to the employer quote the notice period from your contract and explain that if they fail to pay you they are in breach of contract and you will take legal action against them at an Employment Tribunal. Just lay the facts out as you have done above and get everyone to send the same letter.
Prior to taking legal action you will need to attend mediation with ACAS.I doubt it will get anywhere near a tribunal.
Also I would write to the Principal of the College. Is it a private institution or operated by a Government body. If the latter write to them too or your MP.
I assume you do not belong to a union, but you could club together and get some advice from an employment solicitor.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
We sought the advice of an employment solicitor who basically took the contract apart!
He emailed letters this morning on our behalf to HR and within an hour they came back to us agreeing to pay us our entitled 3 months!!
Its such a weight od my mind, especially with my first baby on the way!
Thank you everyone for your advice, this site has helped me so many times!!!0 -
Well done Shareen_82 - very good outcome.
From what you say you did in your first post, the way you approached the issue, researched what to do and how you took action, all seemed very well thought out and sensible. I suspect some silly person in their HR team thought that they could 'shine' whilst messing around people's lives and come up with a ruse to save their own employer a few pounds.
Good luck in the future.0 -
Please ignore my post. It appeared in error.0
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