Electrics on Home Buyer Survey

amihohu

Hi all,

I am in the process of buying my first house, I have had the home buyers survey back and the two '3's' marked down (things they deem serious/need to be repaired urgently) are to do with the electrics and gas.

For the gas, the surveyor states there is a lack of a recent test certificate (within 12 months) for the gas supply and appliances. The vendor has said she can get a certificate for the boiler. Would that be enough to cover any potential problems do you think? I should add, it's a 1953 house, but fairly modern and part extended, so not a complete refurb job or anything. It does have a gas fire, but I will most likely be taking that out anyway.

The other 3 was with the electrics, with the surveyor having this to say:

'The consumer unit (fuse box) has no proper safety protection devices fitted. A new consumer unit should be installed along with associated rewiring. Not in compliance with up-to-date regulations.'

The vendor hasn't commented on this at all really, she has said she's done no rewiring work and hasn't replaced the fuse box since she's been there (7 years). I am trying to work out whether we should get an electrician in now, to check whether this is going to be a rewiring job, or if it is likely to just be a new fuse box. Basically I am a bit unclear what the 'associated rewiring' may entail!

Thanks!

molerat

!!!! covering by the person doing the report, they are not qualified to make any real assessments on anything. A gas safety cert will only mean the gas services are safe on the day they were checked. It does not mean that the boiler will not break down or last any given time. The electrics are "not up to current standards" which means as it reads, it does not mean they are unsafe. Electrics done 10 years ago are unlikely to be up to the latest (2008) standard.

thesaint

The vendor wouldn't have a gas certificate unless it was for a rental house.
Even with one, it doesn't mean anything in regards to how long the boiler might or might not last.

The fusebox is as a lot of fuseboxes are; not up to date.
The "associated wiring" means that it's not possible without being invasive, to see the wiring to comment on it's condition.

As a vendor, I would say that the price is reflected with these things in mind.

HouseBuyer77

Wiring regulations are always being updated. So it's common for many houses to be out of date with regards to them. This doesn't make them inherently unsafe though.

That said over the years significant safety improvements have been made.

A significant one is the use of RCDs over fuses. A fuse blows when there's too much current going through a wire. This may stop a circuit from overloading (helping prevent electrical fires), however it doesn't take much current to kill you. Certainly if you got unlucky the fuse would blow long after you were dead (if indeed at all). An RCD detects current going the wrong way (to get technical it checks that the same amount of current is going out of the live that is coming back down the neutral). When you get electrocuted your body is taking some of that current and sending it to earth, the RCD sees this and trips very quickly, hopefully preventing major injury. These are combined with things called MCBs that are just modern versions of fuses. They do the exact same thing but don't require replacing when they go (just switch them back on again).

So if the electrics are sufficiently old you won't have any RCD protection. That will also mean that the circuits you have aren't really rated for modern power consumption and fuses may blow frequently because of this (or worse someone annoyed by this has uprated a fuse beyond the carrying capacity of a circuit, introducing a fire hazard).

So first I'd check if it's a relatively modern installation with RCDs/MCBs (looking like this: http://www.electriciansintelford.com/sites/default/files/MrB_RCD.JPG) or if it's an old style fuse box (looking like this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/sapphymike/oldfusebox_zps8558c054.jpg). If it's the latter you may want to consider an upgrade.

In either case for full piece of mind you can have an electrician do a full check of the system, though it's not that cheap (I paid £180 for a 2-bed).

Many people happily live in a house for years with ancient electricals with no problems. So really depends upon how nervous you feel about and how much power you'll use. If you're going to be running tumble driers, hair dyers, kettles, washing machines, dishwashers etc all at the same time and it's a very old system it may not cope (or potentially set on fire if it's been bodged to run loads it shouldn't)!

amihohu

Thanks for the advice everyone. I suppose what we are really wondering if whether we should just wait until we are moved in, knowing we will probably have to replace the fuse box, but hoping that the wiring is ok, or whether we should try and arrange an electrician beforehand, to find out if the actual wiring is a bit dodgy too. Although I am slightly suspect that an electrician may well just say it needs rewiring to 'modernise' it, when it could actually be fine!

HouseBuyer77

Well if I were you and it was an old installation with fuses I would definitely want it upgraded. This may be straight forwarded (wiring all releatively modern, capable of carrying the current you'll want, no 'interesting' circuits that make installing RCDs problematic) or it may require a rewire. If you get an electrician to look at it and quote for that work now even if you can't negotiate a reduction you'll at least know exactly what you're getting (or alternatively decide to walk away).

Browntoa

as far as I'm aware ALL electrics more than a year or so old as flagged as a fail


like you say , the surveyers never put down anything that can come back and bite them

Davesnave

Speak to the surveyor. You paid him/her.

They may be less guarded when just reporting verbally.

In other words, was this just bottom-covering or was something spotted which indicated that a re-wire would be definitely on the cards?

Depending on the reply you can then decide whether to get an electrician's report.

For a 3 bed type house a rewire will be around £3.5k (more in London and surrounds) and quite disruptive.

Prothet_of_Doom

Let me explain my house history and then my advice will be in context.

Current house was built in 1966, and we moved to it in 1998, when I did some interesting wiring mods in the kitchen. Under the guidance of my dad, a Fellow of the IET, a man with a physics Degree, and using my book of home wiring projects, we used the 30 amp supply originally for an electric oven, and fitted an MCB rated at 15 amps, to supply all the new kitchen sockets, in their own mini ring.

We did something similar to wire up the garage and shower.


In 2001, we had a loft conversion, and the builder employed a contractor on a regular basis to do the electrics.
His first words on seeing our 'old' consumer box were "I can't connect to that"

So we found £1500 to rewire the whole house. I asked him to comment on my dad's advice, and he said "not to regulations, but not unsafe, not sure why you did it like that, but hey, it's right now. Unlike the previous bodger,,," and he then went on to show me a couple of very dubious modifications which had been totally wrong.

On attempting to power up the electrics, it kept tripping, and he worked out it was the central heating pump, which had an earth leakage issue and which could have been a bit dangerous too.

So once that was fixed we had a house that was as good and as safe as it gets in 2001.

Apart from the fact that we had to redecorate every room. They tried to minimise the damage, but if you have solid floors, how do you get the wiring to the socket? Yes down the middle of the wall.

So a month ago we looked at a house built in about 1900, with a view to letting it out. Lovely house. Fuse box Circa 1970. Estate agent tried to tell me it looked almost new.

We had an offer accepted on a house circa 1905, and I reckon the consumer unit was put in, this century.
Once we've had the mortgage valuation survey come through, I'll get a sparky and a gas fitter, to do a safety check on both systems. Happy to pay, as I need the gas one anyway, but I feel I have a duty of care, and better to know before we sign the contracts if there's an issue.

AdrianC

This really does need to be a sticky.

amihohu

Thanks again for the advice everyone. As it turns out, I contacted the estate agent about sorting an electrician to visit, but apparently the vendor has already contacted one who is coming this week and the report will be sent via solicitors. So, looks like we are getting out of paying for it, which is a bonus! Just hope this electrician isn't a friend who may be a bit more generous on the vendors side than ours.....!