Ukpc - Use of own space for guests - POPLA code given

Dad_to_4_little_monkeys

Hi,

as a newbie - I have checked as much as I can find, following forum comments, newbie sticky's, etc - but cannot find a true match.

Checking Parking Cowboys link, I have 10 days left to submit to POPLA. Any advice really appreciated.

My situation:

UKPC windscreen ticketed my in-laws when they came to (surprise) visit us back in April and parked in my second car park space. My CCTV (sadly couldn't lift - but was viewed by many) showed the ticket was issued with 4 minutes of their arrival, but ignored many other cars in the area. I went to the car with the 2nd permit within 10 minutes to discover the ticket. Our particular spaces are numbered and reached through an underpass off the access road.

The ticket was misaligned with the printer, meaning difficult to read as the detail was printed over the pre-printed text.

The registration was incorrect (a zero used instead of an "O" - relevant I felt as it was more than a typo as it made an 18mth old car 20 yrs old - P063 instead of PO63).

I appealed online, to inform them that the car was a guest of mine, but couldn't for a few days due to incorrect reg.

I also got the management company involved, who seem to support UKPC (possibly due to commissions).

UKPC wrote to me asking for a copy of a valid permit to determine their decision.

Within the letter - they claimed that the incorrect VRN was a minor error and corrected it within the letter.

I am the homeowner and have Land Registry documents to support ownership of the 2 spaces as well as the house. The address on the PCN is incorrect - and not the same as our address (which is the same as Land Registry docs).

The decision reached by UKPC was to reduce the £60 fine to £15 - as they believe that it was correctly issued, and therefore will not waive it. They further stated that if I took my appeal with POPLA, the goodwill would be removed and the higher £100 fine will apply if unsuccessful.

The 3rd option was a CCJ threat, and debt recovery.

Many properties on the estate are Housing Association, and these spaces are on a whitelist with UKPC, and as such do not display permits (all signage states that all vehicles need a permit displayed). Catching an attendant who appeared reluctant to issue a ticket to an offending car - he suggested that he was checking to see if they were transporting shopping. As it had been a hr - we agreed that there was an inconsistent approach. He further showed me an email to show that they were instructed NOT to monitor the visitor bays which are abused by residents and guests alike.

I have no further success with the management company, and although the reduced amount is a significant reduction, I will not pay as I have no agreement with UKPC to monitor my land, and therefore "no landlord authority".

I have picked up a few additional phrases, and noted the Winchester case for UKPC which filed in favour of the claimant - for trespass and harassment.

I simply want this to go away, and avoid further engagement for use of my own space, which I hope extends to anyone I see fit to use it?

Any advice gratefully received. Many thanks .....

Redx

the circumstances are irrelevant to popla, who wont give a rats backside

appeal to popla , on legal arguments only , same as all the others are advised to do

all the other issues are side issues, which may need addressing but your popla appeal is paramount at the moment

little or none of what you have written is needed or useful at popla , except maybe the fact you are the landowner and can prove it

so find a recent ukpc popla appeal and plagiarise it until it "fits" your case, but on legal arguments only

like https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5248470

perhaps you should issue a counter claim against UKPC as regards trespassing on your land , like Davey did against the same UKPC , issue an injunction etc

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5286291

Dad_to_4_little_monkeys

Can I quickly ask - should I be the appealant? I.e. should I appeal as the landowner, or let them track down my in-laws? But they have already issued a POPLA code?

It was not my vehicle that was windscreen ticketed? They have no details on the owner and have only been corresponding with myself?

Should they even have held an appeal without the keepers involvement? I.e. no NtK has been issued!

Half_way

Who have they issued the popla code to?

Redx

if you appealed, you did so either as driver or keeper , not landowner

the charge is against the vehicle, so either the driver or the keeper

it seems they are mistaking you for the keeper or driver because YOU appealed , yet I think you are neither and should not be involved other than as landowner on behalf of the contract (or lack of a contract)

Dad_to_4_little_monkeys

This is true, I am the landowner - acting on behalf of my in-laws who are the driver/keeper.

UKPC issued the POPLA code to me. How should I proceed? Inform them, or ignore them until they produce a NtK?

Redx

so you appealed as KEEPER, , because you had to be an entity when you appealed

if they have not issued an NTK to the RK, then they have failed pofa 2012

so you should appeal to popla and add these extra points into the appeal

no NTK as prescribed under POFA 2012 (THE NEWBIES THREAD TELLS YOU ABOUT THIS FAILURE BY THEM)

you are the landowner and no contract exists between yourself and UKPC (copies uploaded to prove this fact as an evidence attachment) - so no contract , no locus standii

no signage (as you have not sanctioned any)

not a gpeol (there is no loss to you , the landowner)

the beavis paragraph

and anything else too

Guys_Dad

Are you actually the landowner or a leasholder? In other words, have you a freehold on the two parking spaces.

If so, then you are in clover.

Dad_to_4_little_monkeys

We are leasehold - 90 yrs left, not so much clover?

hoohoo

As well as the other arguments, there is no keeper liability and so you can appeal to POPLA on this point.

For keeper liability both windscreen ticket and notice to keeper must contain the same information - they cannot correct typos.

In fact, if the NTK states that keeper liability applies then you (or, more accurately the real keeper) can complain to the BPA and the DVLA that they are stating keeper liability exists when it cannot because NTD and NTK have different registrations. This is a sanctionable offence.

Might be worth also taking this route, because they often cancel when faced with the possibility of sanctions.

Redx

I dont think there has ever been an NTK here

he has appealed a windscreen ticket (presumably as keeper) and says the RK has never had an NTK, although it may well be that he has had one "to keeper"

in which case, excellent point and yes complaints should go to the BPA, plus maybe a counter claim for trespassing etc (a la Davey vs UKPC)