PCN for parking in bay i own- help please on legal position

sfa1

Firstly I have read through the stickies and its great that people have taken the time out to provide information to help others out.

however I haven't found anything definitive on my specific issue, so any responses would be greatly appreciated.

simply I received a PCN for parking in the bay that i own as part of my leasehold, as the permit badge I had, had fallen off the windscreen.

But looking into the legality of issuing tickets, I feel I have grounds for a strong appeal.

I purchased a flat under a leasehold in 2007. the leasehold gives me ownership of my flat and my specific parking space. to clarify it isn't an entitlement to park in the car park- it is ownership over that specific space.

2 years ago, the PPC who manage the car park provided permit badges and signage stating permits had to be displayed at all times. however, i or no other leasehold owners were required to accept new terms or amendments to the original leasehold terms.

i believe that as i signed a lease 8 years ago which made no requirement to display permit badges, any new contract in place is only between the freeholder and the PPC.

the freeholder has no right under the original lease to insist on parking badges, therefore they cant transfer any rights to the PPC as no rights exist.

secondly, signage stating that there is implied agreement to t and cs by parking in the car park should not be legally obligating as there has been no active agreement to new t and cs.

my contract with the freeholder does not state a requirement to display a parking permit. i am parking in the bay i own. new t and cs which are only 2 years old can not supersede my original leashold terms, given that i have not agreed to the new terms.

i believe the above is true and should be the grounds for a POPLA appeal??

any thoughts please?

thanks

Half_way

if there is no requirement to display a permit then why are you displaying one? if you agree with the ppc and are happy to pay their charges keep the permit.

If you were told that you need a permit to take a number 2 in the toilet of your flat/house after 9pm otherwise you would agree to pay £75, would you find that acceptable?

bazster

We need some more information.

Firstly, what parking company is it?

Secondly, you are talking about a PoPLA appeal but have you sent a challenge to the parking company? You need to do that before you can go to PoPLA.

You also need to write to the parking company and to the management company.

I am the leasehold owner of the parking space in question. It is my property, I do not need anyone's permission to park there and nor am I required to display a permit on my own property.

<name of parking company> trespassed on my property when affixing a parking charge notice to my vehicle. I hereby withdraw any express or implied right of access <name of parking company> may believe it had to my property, and I require <name of parking company> to cease and desist trespassing on my property. If there is any repeat of the trespass I will hold <name of parking company> and <name of management company> jointly and severally liable and will seek damages from both. I may also seek a court injunction.

I refer you to the case of Davey vs. UKPC Ltd. where Mr. Davey obtained damages and costs to a total of £1,430.26 from a parking company that persistently ticketed his vehicle on his private property.

Umkomaas

I refer you to the case of Davey vs. UKPC Ltd. where Mr. Davey obtained damages and costs to a total of £1,430.26 from a parking company that persistently ticketed his vehicle on his private property.

ROGER DAVEY QC -v- UKPC

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

bazster

I shall chortle if this is also UKPC.

Umkomaas

bazster wrote: »

I shall chortle if this is also UKPC.

I'd be almost confident it is. We'll see!

Marktheshark

I would want to know why they think they can use your leasehold land to open and operate a profit making enterprise on ?
That is what they are doing, running a business on your leasehold land.

Personally I would totally Ignore them as in this instance you can and sit and hope they are stupid enough to try court.
You could hit them back with an enormous damages claim, well beyond the harassment ones done before.
Unless there is a specific Covenant in the lease about complying with this third party then they are seriously in the wrong and probably operating criminally.
The only person that can grant them permission to operate a business on your leasehold is you.


Personally I would bait them on by ignoring them until they make a mistake and try and sue then hit them with a counterclaim for damages for several thousand.

sfa1

in reply to first answer, as with most people, i only understood my position when carrying out research

its secureaspace. its a small operation. i had a conversation with the owner twice. at one point he was bragging about how he used to clamp on the land. ive got means financially, so im thinking maybe just to take him to the cleaners in court.

at this point, ive only submitted the appeal/ response to secureapsace. 22 days. have reiterated my position and asked for a POPLA reference if they decline for appeal/response.

the freeholder is comers. the management company is comer management. anyone familiar with them, will know what im dealing with...

is it worth me checking the specific wording in the lease before sending the cease and desist wording you suggest bazster?

roger Davey is a barrister based in London. was thinking, if it comes to it, who better to represent me than him!

bazster

You gave the impression that you already knew what your lease said! Obviously you need to be clear on that before you start sending legal threats (not that such niceties ever bother parking companies).

Do you want to have a laugh about Michael Stiles? Read and enjoy:

http://www.filedropper.com/stilesvwelcomefinancialserviceslimitedandanr

sfa1

i read through the lease as i wanted to know if i owned a specific parking space, but that was 8 years ago.. and at the time i wasn't looking out for any and all eventualities eg parking badges but im pretty much certain there isn't anything there but will check.

couldn't open your link?

thanks for the help btw!

the man was so arrogant.. called me sir continuously.. but then said 'our appeals team would need to look into it'.. i said, 'but its only you and your wife?!' that spooked him.. and then yes, the bragging about clamping in the building and being in the business for 20 years..

POPLA rewrote the rules to suit a couple of years ago, so my understanding is that, they don't have to respond within 35 days now? is that right? what should i do if i don't get a response?

The_Slithy_Tove

Marktheshark wrote: »

Unless there is a specific Covenant in the lease about complying with this third party then they are seriously in the wrong and probably operating criminally.
The only person that can grant them permission to operate a business on your leasehold is you.

And talking of covenants, there are often covenants on such properties which specifically bar the leaseholders from running businesses from the property. Ironic or what?

Alternatively the OP could be charging rent to the PPC for operating a business on his property.

I prefer the suing for trespass approach myself. Of just collect tickets at one per day and appeal each and every one to POPLA, costing them £27/day.