Has the politico-economic situation in the EU changed your stance?

Carl31

shortchanged wrote: »

I would rather that we would all be friends instead of bed buddies.

Europe simply is not the US. There is too much diversity in history, culture, language and economies.

As others have noted the EU is actually being ruled by a couple of the bigger players.

What happens to the poorer countries like Greece, Spain etc when the German economy is ready for an interest rate rise? Hmmm I wonder.

For the eu to work, the members need to be economically equal. This will only ever happen if everyone follows the same policies, same welfare spending, same taxation. Or at least the net affect of

It's like the rich boys letting their poor mates tag along at the moment. The poor boys can't really keep up, but want to join in all the same, so do what they can to do so. Of course this situation is never sustainable and will end in tears in the end

vivatifosi

CLAPTON wrote: »

what do you consider the 'reformers' stand for?

further integration of all aspects (legal, social etc)

unwinding integration?

greater financial discipline?

abolishing the agricultural policy?

I don't think that there is a one-size-fits-all description and that they will come from different elements of the European project.

Honestly, 30 years from now, I can see two groups within Europe, the Eurozone, which may well have merged into a "United States of Europe", and those more interested in a common market approach (us, Sweden, Denmark, possibly the EFTA/EEA countries) in another bloc that sits alongside the Eurozone.

It's clear that there are tensions and different aims and objectives. If countries want to unite more closely, then that's up to them; but they equally need to see not all buy in. Equally, it is bonkers to make it conditional upon new market entrants that they have to enter the Euro. Not that there are many new entrants to be had now that are anywhere near economic powerhouses with the strength to enter the Euro (Serbia, Albania, Moldova, the Ukraine etc) as the rest have already been hoovered up.

Graham_Devon

vivatifosi wrote: »

Interesting question, thanks Graham.

I'd still vote to stay in because I think that's best for the country. My hope is that purch will be proved right and the EU will evolve under the reformers. I think coming out is too risky at this point in time, but would never say stay in at all costs.

I was wondering what it would take for those who know they will vote to stay in the EU, to even consider their view.

A lot has happened in the EU politically and econmically over the past couple of months. Theres been failings, broken promises, panic, political venom (and some very distasteful comments from both sides) and in some peoples opinion (though not neccesarily those who support the EU) the active drive to humiliate a member country.

We've seen that, even though everyone knows and accepts a solution will not work, they will drive forward with it anyway, costing taxpayers huge sums of money. They are quite willing to sanction, remove assets and discard democracy in the name of saving the EU, at seemingly any cost....be that financial, social or political. The disregard of democracy and the bitterness towards it has been quite staggering.

Politically though, it would be hard to imagine that any one of us can't have found themselves taken aback, even slightly, at the politics and words used over the last couple of weeks.

All this has not only cost relationships, it's also costing a huge sum of money, including it seems, costing us money. Indeed, we've seen demands for the UK to take part in a Euro currency issue- and this doesn't seem cleared up yet with a further demand from the EC suggesting previous promises are to be broken as the EU is the most important.

Clearly we won't get any kind of renegotation. We may well get some words, but it's been shown that those words are just that, words and nothing more. It's also been made pretty clear that rocking the boat will result in payback (statement from Junker suggested the harsher deal was payback for the referendum offered to the Greeks).

I find it somewhat surprising that so many of us will still carry on and vote to stay in this without even considering their position. At what point are people pushed to reconsider if the disasters over the past couple of months didn't do it? I guess people must believe there are some huge benefits for us in staying in.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I guess people must believe there are some huge benefits for us in staying in.

Squabbling about indulgent first world problems is better than passing the time having regular wars with each other.

The Euro and the EU aren't the same thing either. I'd vote to stay in the EU but the Euro can die in its sleep for all I care.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Squabbling about indulgent first world problems is better than passing the time having regular wars with each other.

The Euro and the EU aren't the same thing either. I'd vote to stay in the EU but the Euro can die in its sleep for all I care.

the alternatives facing us aren't between war and destroying the opportunities of the Southern Europe's youth (for out dated ideological reasons).

RJP33

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Clearly we won't get any kind of renegotation. We may well get some words, but it's been shown that those words are just that, words and nothing more.

The EU will not change in a way that the UK wants, the only direction is further integration. Even Cameron's incredibly modest demands won't be met, we simply have no influence.

Leftie Owen Jones joins the club - http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic

Mistermeaner

I for one would be thrilled to be part of a union that skilfully ousted a looney left wing government and is replacing it with something sustainable and fiscally sound.

CLAPTON

ggb1979 wrote: »

I for one would be thrilled to be part of a union that skilfully ousted a looney left wing government and is replacing it with something sustainable and fiscally sound.

you mean like one that has ruled in greece over the last 50 years or so?

Ronaldo_Mconaldo

It seems to me that the Titanic is about to start to sink and we have the option to be on the first life raft out of there before we even gets our shoes wet or whether we want to vote to stay onboard and go down with the ship.

Mistermeaner

Ronaldo_Mconaldo wrote: »

It seems to me that the Titanic is about to start to sink and we have the option to be on the first life raft out of there before we even gets our shoes wet or whether we want to vote to stay onboard and go down with the ship.

What do you mean? Why is Europe going to sink